[lit-ideas] Re: The de-islamization of Europe
- From: JimKandJulieB@xxxxxxx
- To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2007 00:29:11 EST
I find the Orthodox Study Bible (ironic name) and the NIV to be sometimes
better translations than the KJ which you cite. However,
"And if any man will sue thee, and take away thy coat, let him have
thy cloak also."
is found also (previously) in a very lengthy (Jewish) Talmudic discussion
-- I can find the tractate if anyone is interested. Yeshua was no doubt (or
little doubt) referring to the teachings of Judaism (albeit the Talmud came
far later).
Julie Krueger
a confused soul wishing to produce holy witness
========Original Message========
Subj: [lit-ideas] Re: The de-islamization of Europe Date: 1/20/2007 10:51:57
P.M. Central Standard Time From: _atlas@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
(mailto:atlas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx) To: _lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
(mailto:lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx)
Sent on:
LH:
>>Gad, Andreas, you are sounding just like an Islamist! I have studied both
>>Christian Theology and to a lesser extent Islamic Theology and there is no
>>comparison.<<
I've never studied Islamic Theology. I've read some articles, that's about
it. All were written by Westerners and were mostly very sympathetic to
Islam as a religion of deep reverence for life and intense spirituality --
which seems to contradict most of what you write. But then I don't know.
When do you find the time do all these studies, Lawrence? Which mullahs
have you discussed contested passages of the Koran with? How many years
have you devoted to the study of Arabic so that you can understand the
cultural context of Islam? I'm asking because I don't know. Perhaps you
think that's not necessary. Perhaps you also think you understand French
culture as well as you understand Islam. I just don't know what you know.
>>Christianity is a religion of belief, of emulating the perfect son of God,
>>of wrestling with ones motivation and trying to get it right, but
>>accepting forgiveness when one doesn't. It is not a religion of violence
>>or anger. The Christian should turn the other cheek if insulted.<<
"Insulted"? That's not what my Bible says. It says:"But I say unto you,
That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek,
turn to him the other also." (Matt 5:39) And then there's this: "But I tell
you, love your enemies, bless those who curse you, do good to those who hate
you, and pray for those who mistreat you and persecute you." (Matt 5:44)
And this: "'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your
soul and with all your mind.' This is the first and greatest commandment.
And the second is like it: 'Love your neighbour as yourself.' All the law
and the Prophets hang on these two commandments." Mathew 22:37-40 And
this: "And if any man will sue thee, and take away thy coat, let him have
thy cloak also. And whosoever shall compel thee to go a mile, go with him
twain. Give to him that asketh thee, and from him that would borrow of thee
turn not thou away.
"Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and
hate thine enemy. But I say unto you, Love your enemies, pray for them that
persecute you, that ye may be the children of your Father which is in
heaven, for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and
sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust. For if ye love them which love
you, what reward have ye? do not even the tax-gatherers the same? And if ye
salute your brethren only, what do ye more than others? do not even the
Gentiles so? And if ye lend to them of whom ye hope to receive, what gain
have ye? for sinners also lend to sinners, to receive as much again. But
love ye your enemies, and do good, and lend, hoping for nothing in return;
and your reward shall be great, and ye shall be the children of the Most
High: for he is kind unto the unthankful and to the evil. Be ye merciful, as
your Father also is merciful."
That's what Christ, "the perfect son of God", is reported to have said.
At least that's what my "study" of Christian theology tells me Christianity
is all about. Faith? Baby, you've got to have a shitload of faith to
follow those prescripts. So yes, Lawrence, you're right, Christianity is
not a religion of violence and anger. It's a religion of unqualified
non-violence and unconditional love. Unfortunately Christianity has never
been practiced. It's only been believed by a few sacred fools. So please
don't try to push the travesty we know as "Christianity" on us as some
superior way of being. That "Christianity" has been and is still being used
to justify hatreds and hostilities and pretexts for murder. It is still as
blood-thirsty as all the other power players in the world. That's not to
say that Christianity is not still out there. So is Islam and so is Islam
as loving and caring and totally devoted to spiritual awareness as
Christianity. So also is there an "Islam". Study more, Lawrence. Study
Christianity, not "Christianity". Study Islam, not "Islam". Then come talk
to me.
Mike Geary
citing Scripture for my purpose,
an evil soul producing holy witness
in Memphis
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