[lit-ideas] Re: The continuation of Realpolitik -- a rant

  • From: "David Wright" <wright@xxxxxxxx>
  • To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
  • Date: Fri, 23 May 2008 23:39:34 -0500

What, at the root, I'm saying is that behaviour supported by a
diseducated but semi-populist group does not justify concomitant,
unethical behaviour.

To put it into simplistic terms, it is not cool to say:
"I refrain from eating meat, so, like, I can drive a car to work every
(almost) Ignoring, but pointing out, phrases like this: "Can all you
think about is money?" or "And houses produce actually more GW gases than

an obnoxious so-and-so, I know,

  Irene wrote:

  How can you compare driving to killing animals in unbelievably cruel
  ways?  Are you just another sheep?  Can all you think about is
  money?  What about the water that goes into raising cattle, the
  millions of tons of manure, the mad cow disease (which I won't even
  go into where that comes from), the methane that's produced.  
  Methane is 20 times more potent than CO2.  And houses produce
  actually more GW gases than cars.   I'm not a proponent of cars but
  you're saying that until the cars go we have to eat meat?  Are you

  --- On Sat, 5/24/08, David Wright <wright@xxxxxxxx> wrote:

    From: David Wright <wright@xxxxxxxx>
    Subject: [lit-ideas] Re: The continuation of Realpolitik -- a
    To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
    Date: Saturday, May 24, 2008, 3:59 AM

    Religion is what we choose to venerate.  You venerate a certain
    lifestyle.  Call yourself a Jain, if you will, though it would be
    as false as your claim to veggiehood -- you do drive after all,
    don't you?  That is not a rhetorical question..  Don't take it
    personally.  I expect it from the vast majority.  I know
    individuals for whom science is a religion.  It is the difference
    between critical thought and reactionary belief. 

    For example, "I do this 'cause it makes me feel good but I still
    do this, that, and the other thing even if it's genuinely bad;  I
    just ignore the inconvenient stuff by justifying it through my
    religion/belief system."

    spirituality -  the selfishly exclusive reliugion of the modern

    P.S. Religion = Spirituality = My Way or the Highway.  That is to
    say, that 'spirituality' is simply a way of saying I reject all
    the stuff I disagree with, so that I can worship myself.  It is
    much more comfortable that way...


      I'm not sure what you mean by vegetarianism being a
      religion.  Maybe you need to define religion.  Vegetarianism
      is a choice in what form one takes one's calories.  For some
      there is also a spiritual component to it, but spirituality
      is hardly religion.  In some ways spirituality is the
      opposite of religion.  A plant based diet is extremely good
      for the planet, but, as you say, meat is what  most everyone

      You're right that vegetable based 'meat' is energy intensive,
      and it's not what grows in nature, but it's still a plant
      food which makes it *much* easier on the environment than
      live cattle.  Worth noting is that the way agribusiness does
      meat is not what grows in nature either.  I personally don't
      buy soy/veggie burgers except on rare occasion. Too
      salty, too processed, plus I just never think of them. 

      --- On Sat, 5/24/08, David Wright <wright@xxxxxxxx> wrote:

        From: David Wright <wright@xxxxxxxx>
        Subject: [lit-ideas] Re: The continuation of Realpolitik
        -- a rant
        To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
        Date: Saturday, May 24, 2008, 1:54 AM

        I understand the sentiment, however, the impressive
        millions/billions figures you're throwing around are 
        true only if almost everyone in the west stops consuming
        meat to such an extreme.  At the moment, the meat that
        veggies aren't eating is discarded or rendered into dog

        It is only a miniscule percentage of veggies that
        actually engage in an ethically sound lifestyle.  Most
        still drive to their overpriced yuppie stores, buy "I'm A
        Cool Vegetarian!" t-shirts, eat miso all the way from
        Japan, and bamboo-fabric laptop cases.  Transcending the
        -isms also includes transcending consumerism.  This
        includes the massive veggie market for processed food --
        Amy's, Yve's, Mcartney's, and the rest, that are shipped
        all around the world.  We also have to consider the
        flyers veggie activists hand out, the flights and long
        drives they take to inter/national veggie conventions...I
        could go on, and on, and...

        abandoning all religions, including Vegstafarianism

            Andy:  It absolutely changes everything.  It
            stops torturing animals horrifically.  It saves
            millions if not billions of *tons* of water.  I
            saves the soil and it results in a lot more food
            for everybody.  Meat is natural, but there is
            nothing natural about today's meat.  You're
            right, there's no such thing as a no impact man. 
            But there could be a minimal or low impact man,
            and bicycles are definitely the way to do it. 
            Transcending isms and personal freedom sounds
            good, but it's just an excuse to eat meat and 'do
            your thing'.  And maybe in a world of 6.6 billion
            and growing on a shrinking planet, eat, drink and
            be merry is all that's possible now.  But just
            call it the ism that it is, which is
            selfish-ism.  You'll have 6.599 billion
            companions.  They just won't be as honest as you
            will be.

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