[lit-ideas] Re: The continuation of Realpolitik -- a rant

  • From: Andy <mimi.erva@xxxxxxxxx>
  • To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
  • Date: Fri, 23 May 2008 21:08:02 -0700 (PDT)

How can you compare driving to killing animals in unbelievably cruel 
ways?&nbsp; Are you just another sheep?&nbsp; Can all you think about is 
money?&nbsp; What about the water that goes into raising cattle, the millions 
of tons of manure, the mad cow disease (which I won't even go into where that 
comes from), the methane that's produced.&nbsp;&nbsp; Methane is 20 times more 
potent than CO2.&nbsp; And houses produce actually more GW gases than 
cars.&nbsp;&nbsp; I'm not a proponent of cars but you're saying that until the 
cars go we have to eat meat?&nbsp; Are you kidding?

--- On Sat, 5/24/08, David Wright &lt;wright@xxxxxxxx&gt; wrote:

From: David Wright &lt;wright@xxxxxxxx&gt;
Subject: [lit-ideas] Re: The continuation of Realpolitik -- a rant
To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Date: Saturday, May 24, 2008, 3:59 AM

Religion is what we choose to venerate.&nbsp; You venerate a certain 
lifestyle.&nbsp; Call yourself a Jain, if you will, though it would be as false 
as your claim to veggiehood -- you do drive after all, don't you?&nbsp; That is 
not a rhetorical question..&nbsp; Don't take it personally.&nbsp; I expect it 
from the vast majority.&nbsp; I know individuals for whom science is a 
religion.&nbsp; It is the difference between critical thought and reactionary 

For example, "I do this 'cause it makes me feel good but I still do this, that, 
and the other thing even if it's genuinely bad;&nbsp; I just ignore the 
inconvenient stuff by justifying it through my religion/belief system."

spirituality -&nbsp; the selfishly exclusive reliugion of the modern individual,

P.S. Religion = Spirituality = My Way or the Highway.&nbsp; That is to say, 
that 'spirituality' is simply a way of saying I reject all the stuff I disagree 
with, so that I can worship myself.&nbsp; It is much more comfortable that 


I'm not sure what you mean by&nbsp;vegetarianism being a religion.&nbsp; Maybe 
you need to define religion.&nbsp; Vegetarianism is a choice in what form one 
takes one's calories.&nbsp; For some there is also a spiritual component to it, 
but spirituality is hardly religion.&nbsp; In some ways spirituality is the 
opposite of religion.&nbsp; A plant based diet is extremely good for the 
planet, but, as you say, meat is what&nbsp; most everyone wants.&nbsp;
You're right that vegetable based 'meat' is energy intensive, and it's not what 
grows in nature, but it's still a plant food which makes it *much* easier on 
the environment than live cattle.&nbsp; Worth noting is that the way 
agribusiness does meat is not what grows in nature either.&nbsp; I personally 
don't buy soy/veggie burgers except on rare occasion.&nbsp;Too salty,&nbsp;too 
processed, plus I just never think of them.&nbsp; 

--- On Sat, 5/24/08, David Wright &lt;wright@xxxxxxxx&gt; wrote:

From: David Wright &lt;wright@xxxxxxxx&gt;
Subject: [lit-ideas] Re: The continuation of Realpolitik -- a rant
To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Date: Saturday, May 24, 2008, 1:54 AM

I understand the sentiment, however, the impressive millions/billions figures 
you're throwing around are&nbsp; true only if almost everyone in the west stops 
consuming meat to such an extreme.&nbsp; At the moment, the meat that veggies 
aren't eating is discarded or rendered into dog food.

It is only a miniscule percentage of veggies that actually engage in an 
ethically sound lifestyle.&nbsp; Most still drive to their overpriced yuppie 
stores, buy "I'm A Cool Vegetarian!" t-shirts, eat miso all the way from Japan, 
and bamboo-fabric laptop cases.&nbsp; Transcending the -isms also includes 
transcending consumerism.&nbsp; This includes the massive veggie market for 
processed food -- Amy's, Yve's, Mcartney's, and the rest, that are shipped all 
around the world.&nbsp; We also have to consider the flyers veggie activists 
hand out, the flights and long drives they take to inter/national veggie 
conventions...I could go on, and on, and...

abandoning all religions, including Vegstafarianism

Andy:&nbsp; It absolutely changes everything.&nbsp; It stops torturing animals 
horrifically.&nbsp; It saves millions if not billions of *tons* of water.&nbsp; 
I saves the soil and it results in a lot more food for everybody.&nbsp; Meat is 
natural, but there is nothing natural about today's meat.&nbsp; 
You're right, there's no such thing as a no impact man.&nbsp; But there could 
be a minimal&nbsp;or low impact man, and bicycles are definitely the way to do 
it.&nbsp; Transcending isms and personal freedom sounds good, but it's just an 
excuse to eat meat and 'do your thing'.&nbsp; And maybe in a world of 6.6 
billion and growing on a shrinking planet, eat, drink and be merry is all 
that's possible now.&nbsp; But just call it the ism that it is, which is 
selfish-ism.&nbsp; You'll have 6.599 billion companions.&nbsp; They just won't 
be as honest as you will be.

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