[lit-ideas] The arrogance of Americans and Marlene Dietrich
- From: "Lawrence Helm" <lawrencehelm@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: <lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Thu, 8 May 2008 17:00:37 -0700
David
After posting my note I realized I had made a mistake in it. I was only six
when World War II broke out and so even less likely to know what "ty-ty"
means. Maybe Robert Paul who is much older and wiser will know. If I had
to guess, I would say it might be a contraction of "hoity-toity." The sense
of what you quoted would permit hoity-toity - sort of.
I've continued to read Rick Atkinson's An Army at Dawn, The War in North
Africa, 1942-1943. It would have been a thorough-going disaster for the
Americans if they had been going up against the Germans instead of the
French. On paper it looks like a successful invasion, but almost everything
went wrong. Our boats got lost. Our landing craft got lost. They ran into
each other. They mistook French locations for American and got captured or
killed. They insisted on believing that the French were our friends even
when they were shooting at us. One commander after hearing many doubts
from his troops about being able to shoot Frenchmen told them to pretend
they were Japanese.
One British General suspected the Americans would be no good against the
French because Americans have an exalted view of them. They all want to go
to Paris when they die.
The logistics were another disaster. The boats were loaded all wrong.
When Americans finally did get ashore, strewn out for miles and having
difficulty finding each other, they had even more difficulty finding what
they needed from the heavily laden ships and the navy which had difficulty
unloading the supplies onto the docks while the seas picked up and the
U-boats approached. Besides, during the battles, the French sabotaged the
docks quite a bit.
The Americans were extremely inept in North Africa and were only saved by
the fact that they were going up against forces that had recently been inept
against the Germans and hadn't improved themselves after getting to North
Africa - except for the French Foreign Legion which was probably never
inept. The Americans underestimated them and paid for it.
So the British were right to doubt the American can-do confidence. You
Americans think you can land in France and back up the Germans to Berlin?
Why don't you try out a few Vichy French-men first and see how you do?
Lawrence Helm
San Jacinto
From: lit-ideas-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:lit-ideas-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
On Behalf Of David Ritchie
Sent: Thursday, May 08, 2008 3:48 PM
To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [lit-ideas] Re: Gathering the Ships & troops
On May 7, 2008, at 10:20 AM, Lawrence Helm wrote:
Atkinson describes Patton in some length. He was conscious of the
tendencies Gallup describes and was threatening in his speeches to his
troops, even to his officers. He kept them fighting by kicking their butts
until they did. He warned them that if they ran from the German guns, they
were going to have to face his guns on their way back.
Before going off to North Africa, Patton visited his hero, General John J.
Pershing at the Walter Reed Army Hospital. "A feeble eighty-two, Pershing
had reminisced about their adventures in Mexico, where Patton had served as
an unofficial aide-de-camp. 'I can always pick a fighting man,' Pershing
said. 'I like generals so bold they are dangerous.' Patton kissed
Pershing's hand, as desiccated as a fallen leaf, and asked for his blessing.
'Good-bye, George,' the old general replied. 'God bless you and keep you
and give you victory.'"
Before I became distracted by theses, I was comparing Stanley Hirshson,
"General Patton, A Soldier's Life," to the famous movie. But I had to stop,
and so haven't yet reached conclusions or even notions that might be worth
discussing.
Meanwhile, you or someone more fluent in Second World War lingo, or perhaps
just fluent in plain old American, might be able to help me. One of
Patton's dinner guests describes Marlene Dietrich as follows, "I was amazed
at Marlene's excellent French. She was a bit disappointing in looks--a bit
ty-ty, but made herself very agreeable--unaffected."
What does "ty-ty" mean?
David Ritchie,
Portland, Oregon
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