"My point precisely -- that is, you illustrate precisely the attitude I had in mind. The surveys I mentioned come, I should have explained, from organizations allegedly working for older people's welfare. Yet they seek to ask what (more) older people can do for 'the environment' while also being concerned, allegedly anyway, with the effects on older people of the environment in which they live. (But they do not use the term in that context, presumably being of the 'environment'=little furry animals tendency.) Incidentally, you mean the late Ned Sherrin, who may or may not have indexed unindexed books to keep himself useful (just as Mary Warnock may not follow her own precept and off herself before she becomes a burden on society.... )" ---- Thanks Judy. Will check the link. Mary Warnock apparently had a very sad of her life when her husband (and close collaborator of H. P. Grice), Oxford Vice-Chancellor and Head of Hartford, G. J. Warnock, died after a terrible fight with throat cancer. He (and Grice) were something of chain-smokers. It is pathetic to read some of the last days of H. P. Grice. Being _only_ 75, but burdened with some diseases, he (I believe) felt it as a _relief_ when he died. His widow would say that once he realised he could not engage in creative philosophy, his energy to live was over. I disagree, but see Mrs. Grice's point. Cheers, JL ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com