Mashood,
To me, obsession with “soil” is not only primitive but very dangerous. Conflict
over territorial boundaries is found in numerous animal species. Concern with
soil per se most likely dates back to the invention of agriculture. That said
it remains alive and well in disputes that include not only Israel and
Palestine but also Pakistan and India in Kashmir and China, Japan and the
Philippines in the South China Sea. The violence of US reactions to the 9/11
terrorist attacks was a reflex response to the attacks having occurred on what
Americans consider their own sacred soil.
That said, it remains to be seen whether the diminished obsession with native
land found among those like you and me, who have benefited from globalization
and emigrated to live and work in other places, or the intensification seen in
right-wing nativism in Trump, Brexit, and populist political movements
worldwide will prevail.
Thinking bleak thoughts,
John
Sent from my iPad
On Apr 17, 2019, at 5:29, Mashhood Sheikh <senor_massao@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Dear all,
Understanding our past and future is a natural desire and can take the form
of DNA testing/genealogy reports, genetic susceptibility to diseases, etc.;
nothing wrong with that; the prices are coming down like crazy, and these
days one can get a complete report for few hundred USDs. In some years, it
will be as cheap as buying a coca cola. Its use will also increase
significantly as there is already a move towards “personalized” medication.
Knowing our susceptibilities “could” be helpful for preventing certain
diseases. These were the things that came to my mind with Lawrence’s original
email on this topic.
Torgeir’s email; however, points to issues related to “identity”. I agree
with Lawrence that it isn’t really a “quest”; although people are free to be
obsessed with anything including their race, religion, language, culture, or
soil. My family roots are from central and northern India. Generations ago
during the Muslim rule of India, my forefathers converted from Hinduism to
Islam. Since they were high caste Hindus, they took the surname “Sheikh”, to
maintain their high social status among their new community of Muslims. None
of that matters today, as I am a non-believer in Norway. That said, I agree
with Torgeir: “Does that mean that its constituent members consider legally
naturalised nationals AS NATIONAL as those who have the blood and soil on
their side? Probably in many cases not.” This is true, but times are
changing. To me, obsession with “soil” is a primitive idea mostly found in
deserted places far from the rest of human civilization.
USA went through this a long time ago (mostly the western and east coast),
while all this is still new to many European countries. I do not see much
change in my lifetime, but maybe my fourth generation would experience the
“inclusiveness” of today’s New York or Boston in Norway; Ok, may be fifth or
sixth generation..but if I have to bet, I’ll probably put my money on 8th
generation 😊. Until then, my son’s name (Aaron Sheikh) will continue to raise
eyebrows in Norway.
Cheers and happy Easter,
Mashhood
From: lit-ideas-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <lit-ideas-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> On
Behalf Of Lawrence Helm
Sent: 16. april 2019 20:55
To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [lit-ideas] Re: The Philosophy of John Wayne (was: Stand Up Comics)
As the author of the “Was” poem and an Anglo-American to boot, I must confess
with Palma that I do not understanding what the question is.
Take this sentence: “And isn't our ongoing quest to unearth our roots a
testament to precisely the idea that we DO have roots in a SPECIFIC soil, and
that this makes us DIFFERENT from those with roots in OTHER soils?” I
understand the “isn’t our ongoing quest” part and in response to that, my
answer would be “no.” My grandfather, Troy Matthews knew a doctor whose last
name was Matthews and they began searching for genealogical information that
would enable them to determine whether they were related. I inherited Troy
Matthews’ genealogical work and from time to time tried to expand on it.
Later on, one of my daughters became a Mormon. Mormon’s are interested in
their ancestry because they believe that they can pray for their dead
relatives in an intercessory way and enable them, heretics though they may
have been when alive, to enter heaven. My daughter and I don’t discuss
Mormon theology, but we have from time to time discussed genealogy – not in a
long time however.
One other thing, the reason I submitted my DNA information to Ancestry.com
was because we had a family tradition that we were part Indian. One of our
ancestors, William Leander Sparks, while moving West with his parents
encountered a destitute young Indian maiden from a tribe that had been mostly
wiped out by another tribe. He married her and therefore, we were all told,
we have Indian ancestry. I was encouraged to think that in the Marine
Corps who tested my blood and put Blood-type-B on my dog tag. Blood type B
is the common blood-type of American Indians. In Korea I was taken under the
wing of a full-blooded Oklahoma Indian named Emhoola, whose tribal
commandment was that all of us part-Indian Indians show up at the slop-chute
every afternoon whenever we weren’t on duty.
Years later non-Marine-Corps doctors checked my blood and said it was not
blood type B. I argued with them: “But my dog-tag says . . .” Several
other blood tests confirmed their statements. If I had been wounded in
combat, I would have been in big trouble. So when Ancestry.com offered all
its members a DNA check for $100, I sent mine in. And it came back “no
Indian.” My mother’s main argument was that she had seen her grandmother
sitting cross-legged in the backyard smoking a corn-cob pipe, and she looked
Indian.
Lawrence
From: lit-ideas-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:lit-ideas-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] ;
On Behalf Of Torgeir Fjeld
Sent: Monday, April 15, 2019 7:13 AM
To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [lit-ideas] The Philosophy of John Wayne (was: Stand Up Comics)
Dear all,
In the West known as wild there is one philosophy that holds sway. We read:
"Out here, due process is a bullet."
John Wayne
(Colonel Mike Kirby in The Green Berets 1968, directed by Ray Kellogg.)
Anyway, philosophy with a loaded gun inevitably ushers into defeat and solemn
humming of the unforgettable Beatles ditty: "speaking words of wisdom, let it
be." There seems to be a list-wise general agreement ("consensus") that
nations should be codified as per the French/American approach (and we refer
to the view propagated by Anderson, Kamenka and Alter, amongst others),
namely that these are voluntary ("imagined") communities that can (as per
Ernest Renan) be dissolved or abolished when its potential constituents wish
it so. Hence, we have the possibility of naturalisation. It is logical and
inevitable that Americans find this the only way to conceive of nations.
However, in many parts of the world (and even in the USA itself) there are
dissenting voices. While not going to take sides in the debate, it might be
useful (a nicely utilitarian concept to lure all you Anglo-Americans to read
this post until the end) to notice that AFTER the American "revolution" (i.e.
war of independence from Great Britain), many political entities introduced
nationalism by official decree. And then there are many nationalisms that
doesn't fit neatly into this dichotomy.of "state nation" over and against
"kultuur nation."
Is it possible to be naturalised into nations today? Yes, in most cases such
a possibility exist. Does that mean that its constituent members consider
legally naturalised nationals AS NATIONAL as those who have the blood and
soil on their side? Probably in many cases not. And isn't our ongoing quest
to unearth our roots a testament to precisely the idea that we DO have roots
in a SPECIFIC soil, and that this makes us DIFFERENT from those with roots in
OTHER soils?
Our task is to ask, much less to answer.
Mvh. / Yours sincerely,
Torgeir Fjeld
https://torgeirfjeld.com/
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