Dear all,
Understanding our past and future is a natural desire and can take the form of
DNA testing/genealogy reports, genetic susceptibility to diseases, etc.;
nothing wrong with that; the prices are coming down like crazy, and these days
one can get a complete report for few hundred USDs. In some years, it will be
as cheap as buying a coca cola. Its use will also increase significantly as
there is already a move towards “personalized” medication. Knowing our
susceptibilities “could” be helpful for preventing certain diseases. These were
the things that came to my mind with Lawrence’s original email on this topic.
Torgeir’s email; however, points to issues related to “identity”. I agree with
Lawrence that it isn’t really a “quest”; although people are free to be
obsessed with anything including their race, religion, language, culture, or
soil. My family roots are from central and northern India. Generations ago
during the Muslim rule of India, my forefathers converted from Hinduism to
Islam. Since they were high caste Hindus, they took the surname “Sheikh”, to
maintain their high social status among their new community of Muslims. None of
that matters today, as I am a non-believer in Norway. That said, I agree with
Torgeir: “Does that mean that its constituent members consider legally
naturalised nationals AS NATIONAL as those who have the blood and soil on their
side? Probably in many cases not.” This is true, but times are changing. To me,
obsession with “soil” is a primitive idea mostly found in deserted places far
from the rest of human civilization.
USA went through this a long time ago (mostly the western and east coast),
while all this is still new to many European countries. I do not see much
change in my lifetime, but maybe my fourth generation would experience the
“inclusiveness” of today’s New York or Boston in Norway; Ok, may be fifth or
sixth generation..but if I have to bet, I’ll probably put my money on 8th
generation 😊. Until then, my son’s name (Aaron Sheikh) will continue to raise
eyebrows in Norway.
Cheers and happy Easter,
Mashhood
From: lit-ideas-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <lit-ideas-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> On Behalf
Of Lawrence Helm
Sent: 16. april 2019 20:55
To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [lit-ideas] Re: The Philosophy of John Wayne (was: Stand Up Comics)
As the author of the “Was” poem and an Anglo-American to boot, I must confess
with Palma that I do not understanding what the question is.
Take this sentence: “And isn't our ongoing quest to unearth our roots a
testament to precisely the idea that we DO have roots in a SPECIFIC soil, and
that this makes us DIFFERENT from those with roots in OTHER soils?” I
understand the “isn’t our ongoing quest” part and in response to that, my
answer would be “no.” My grandfather, Troy Matthews knew a doctor whose last
name was Matthews and they began searching for genealogical information that
would enable them to determine whether they were related. I inherited Troy
Matthews’ genealogical work and from time to time tried to expand on it. Later
on, one of my daughters became a Mormon. Mormon’s are interested in their
ancestry because they believe that they can pray for their dead relatives in an
intercessory way and enable them, heretics though they may have been when
alive, to enter heaven. My daughter and I don’t discuss Mormon theology, but
we have from time to time discussed genealogy – not in a long time however.
One other thing, the reason I submitted my DNA information to Ancestry.com was
because we had a family tradition that we were part Indian. One of our
ancestors, William Leander Sparks, while moving West with his parents
encountered a destitute young Indian maiden from a tribe that had been mostly
wiped out by another tribe. He married her and therefore, we were all told, we
have Indian ancestry. I was encouraged to think that in the Marine Corps who
tested my blood and put Blood-type-B on my dog tag. Blood type B is the common
blood-type of American Indians. In Korea I was taken under the wing of a
full-blooded Oklahoma Indian named Emhoola, whose tribal commandment was that
all of us part-Indian Indians show up at the slop-chute every afternoon
whenever we weren’t on duty.
Years later non-Marine-Corps doctors checked my blood and said it was not blood
type B. I argued with them: “But my dog-tag says . . .” Several other blood
tests confirmed their statements. If I had been wounded in combat, I would
have been in big trouble. So when Ancestry.com offered all its members a DNA
check for $100, I sent mine in. And it came back “no Indian.” My mother’s
main argument was that she had seen her grandmother sitting cross-legged in the
backyard smoking a corn-cob pipe, and she looked Indian.
Lawrence
From: lit-ideas-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:lit-ideas-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
[mailto:lit-ideas-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Torgeir Fjeld
Sent: Monday, April 15, 2019 7:13 AM
To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [lit-ideas] The Philosophy of John Wayne (was: Stand Up Comics)
Dear all,
In the West known as wild there is one philosophy that holds sway. We read:
"Out here, due process is a bullet."
John Wayne
(Colonel Mike Kirby in The Green Berets 1968, directed by Ray Kellogg.)
Anyway, philosophy with a loaded gun inevitably ushers into defeat and solemn
humming of the unforgettable Beatles ditty: "speaking words of wisdom, let it
be." There seems to be a list-wise general agreement ("consensus") that nations
should be codified as per the French/American approach (and we refer to the
view propagated by Anderson, Kamenka and Alter, amongst others), namely that
these are voluntary ("imagined") communities that can (as per Ernest Renan) be
dissolved or abolished when its potential constituents wish it so. Hence, we
have the possibility of naturalisation. It is logical and inevitable that
Americans find this the only way to conceive of nations. However, in many parts
of the world (and even in the USA itself) there are dissenting voices. While
not going to take sides in the debate, it might be useful (a nicely utilitarian
concept to lure all you Anglo-Americans to read this post until the end) to
notice that AFTER the American "revolution" (i.e. war of independence from
Great Britain), many political entities introduced nationalism by official
decree. And then there are many nationalisms that doesn't fit neatly into this
dichotomy.of "state nation" over and against "kultuur nation."
Is it possible to be naturalised into nations today? Yes, in most cases such a
possibility exist. Does that mean that its constituent members consider legally
naturalised nationals AS NATIONAL as those who have the blood and soil on their
side? Probably in many cases not. And isn't our ongoing quest to unearth our
roots a testament to precisely the idea that we DO have roots in a SPECIFIC
soil, and that this makes us DIFFERENT from those with roots in OTHER soils?
Our task is to ask, much less to answer.
Mvh. / Yours sincerely,
Torgeir Fjeld
https://torgeirfjeld.com/
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