[lit-ideas] Re: The New Islamists Unmasked

  • From: Thomas Hart <tehart@xxxxxxx>
  • To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
  • Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2012 17:21:36 -0400

I replied to Lawrence's statement that he didn't want to annoy me because I've 
sworn off politics & said that I was more interested in having an explanation 
of Wittgenstein than in discussing politics. Hence Wittgenstein was introduced 
into the discussion.


"All women are created equal.
Then some become Marines"

Katy Perry video for "Part of me"

Thomas Hart
tehart@xxxxxxx



On Apr 25, 2012, at 3:06 PM, Donal McEvoy wrote:

> Have heard of Trotskyite entryism, but hiding W-discussion in a thread on New 
> Islamists reaches new heights of intellectual paranoia. Also disagree with 
> everything everybody says - except the reference to "first chapter".
> 
> D
> 
> From: John McCreery <john.mccreery@xxxxxxxxx>
> To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx 
> Sent: Wednesday, 25 April 2012, 2:50
> Subject: [lit-ideas] Re: [The New Islamists
> 
> For what it's worth my interpretation would be as follows.
> 
> 1. The world is all that we take for granted.
> 1.1 The world is constituted by facts, i.e., propositions accepted as true 
> about things, not the things themselves.
> 1.11 The world as we know it is all and only these propositions.
> 1.12 The totality of propositions that we take to be facts determines what 
> does and does not count as a fact. 
> 1.13 The world so constituted can be conceived as a logical space in which 
> all propositions taken to be facts are arrayed.
> 1.14 Conversely, this space, the world as we know it, is defined by these 
> propositions.
> 1.15 Any proposition advanced as a possible fact may or may not be a fact 
> while everything else remains the same. 
> 
> From which it follows that any proposition advanced as a possible fact will 
> be accepted if consistent with the facts that constitute the world as we know 
> it and otherwise rejected as not part of that world.
> 
> This reading is, I hasten to note, my own, ungrounded in any other knowledge 
> of the text in question. I await chastisement from those who know better.
> 
> John
> 
> On Wed, Apr 25, 2012 at 9:27 AM, Thomas Hart <tehart@xxxxxxx> wrote:
> Actually I'm holding out for someone to explain the first chapter of the 
> Tractatus. The first sentence seems clear enough. Possibly even the second. 
> But I'm lost by the time I reach the end of the chapter. What on earth does 
> this all mean:
> 
> 1 The world is all that is the case.
> 1.1 The world is the totality of facts, not of things.
> 1.11 The world is determined by the facts, and by their being all the facts.
> 1.12 For the totality of facts determines what is the case, and also whatever 
> is not the case.
> 1.13 The facts in logical space are the world.
> 1.2 The world divides into facts.
> 1.21 Each item can be the case or not the case while everything else remains 
> the same.
> 
> To start off, WTH is the case? Is he talking beer, whiskey or rye (drunk by 
> good ol' boys at the levee), absinthe, or what?
> 
> "All women are created equal.
> Then some become Marines"
> 
> Katy Perry video for "Part of me"
> 
> Thomas Hart
> tehart@xxxxxxx
> 
> 
> 
> On Apr 24, 2012, at 4:08 PM, Lawrence Helm wrote:
> 
>> Omar,
>>  
>> No, no.  I’m much mellower now that I’m spending so much time photographing 
>> dogs & mountains & such.  Besides, I don’t want to chase off Tom Hart who 
>> can no longer abide political arguments.
>>  
>> Lawrence, the sound of one hand laughing
>>  
>> From: lit-ideas-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:lit-ideas-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] 
>> On Behalf Of Omar Kusturica
>> Sent: Tuesday, April 24, 2012 11:06 AM
>> To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> Subject: [lit-ideas] Re: [The New Islamists
>>  
>> Lawrence has managed to surprise me, I was expecting a lengthy reply with 
>> references to the all-too-familiar list of right-wing authors.
>>  
>> O.K.
>>  
>>  
>> From: Lawrence Helm <lawrencehelm@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx 
>> Sent: Tuesday, April 24, 2012 7:11 PM
>> Subject: [lit-ideas] Re: [The New Islamists
>>  
>> If you should go to [Middle-Eastern city of your choice]
>> Be sure to wear some flowers in your hair.
>> If you’re going to [Middle Eastern city]
>> You’re gonna meet some gentle people there.
>>  
>> For those who come to [Middle-Eastern city]
>> Summertime will be a love-in there
>> In the streets of [Middle-Eastern city]
>> Gentle people with flowers in their hair
>>  
>> All across the nation such a strange vibration
>> People in motion
>> There's a whole generation with a new explanation
>> People in motion people in motion
>>  
>> For those who come to [Middle-Eastern city]
>> Be sure to wear some flowers in your hair
>> If you come to [Middle-Eastern City]
>> Summertime will be a love-in there
>>  
>> If you come to [Middle-Eastern city]
>> Summertime will be a love-in there
>>  
>> [with thanks to Scott McKenzie]
>>  
>> Lawrence
>>  
>>  
>> From: Omar Kusturica
>> Sent: Tuesday, April 24, 2012 4:07 AM
>> To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> Subject: [lit-ideas]: The New Islamists
>>  
>>  
>> ----- Forwarded Message -----
>> From: Omar Kusturica <omarkusto@xxxxxxxxx>
>> To: polidea@xxxxxxxxxx 
>> Sent: Monday, April 23, 2012 9:35 PM
>> Subject: The New Islamists
>> 
>> The longstanding debate over whether Islam and democracy can coexist has 
>> reached a stunning turning point. Since the Arab uprisings began in late 
>> 2010, political Islam and democracy have become increasingly 
>> interdependent. The debate over whether they are compatible is now 
>> virtually obsolete. Neither can now survive without the other.
>> 
>> http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2012/04/16/the_new_islamists?page=full
>> 
>> --^----------------------------------------------------------------
>> This email was sent to: omarkusto@xxxxxxxxx
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>  
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> 
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> John McCreery
> The Word Works, Ltd., Yokohama, JAPAN
> Tel. +81-45-314-9324
> jlm@xxxxxxxxxxxx
> http://www.wordworks.jp/
> 
> 

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