[lit-ideas] Re: The Marine Corps and the SAS
- From: "Lawrence Helm" <lawrencehelm@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: <lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Tue, 9 May 2006 11:00:16 -0700
Judy,
You took one little item in my note, not a major one and certainly not the
main argument of my note, and made of it something to jab with. This
illustrates something I've long noticed, and have commented upon before.
You and some of the other self-avowed anti-violent people on this list are
far more verbally violent than I am. I think the last time this came up
some of you said that verbal violence didn't count - only actual violence -
only sticks and stones. Okay, let's take it a step farther.
Does my believing in national defense make me more violent than someone that
doesn't? I don't think it does. I think it means the opposite. I propose
to help the weak and defenseless from violent people. I oppose violent
attacks against the weak and the defenseless, and believe that violence in
their defense is honorable. To not oppose the violence of someone attacking
the weak and defenseless means that you are permitting and in effect even
promoting it. By permitting the violent attack upon the weak and
defenseless you are, in my opinion, promoting a more malevolent and
dishonorable form of violence than the violence I advocate - the honorable
violence in defense of national security, and in defense of our people and
allies.
Lawrence
-----Original Message-----
From: lit-ideas-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:lit-ideas-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
On Behalf Of Judith Evans
Sent: Tuesday, May 09, 2006 10:11 AM
To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [lit-ideas] Re: The Marine Corps and the SAS
Lawrence, if you find talking to civilians about
fighting and war a waste to time, I suggest you
desist.
Judy Evans, Cardiff
--- Lawrence Helm <lawrencehelm@xxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> Judy,
>
>
>
> Your comments are so short and cryptic I can never
> be quite sure what you
> have in mind or mean; so I'll just say this:
> members of the elite fighting
> forces of the world are largely the same. They have
> similar training and
> they think in the same patterns about war and
> fighting. There are
> exceptions, but what I have said is by and large
> true - true in regard to
> most of the members of these forces.
>
>
>
> Also, what I said was that in boot camp we were told
> that civilians had no
> idea of what it was to be a Marine. They had a lot
> of dumb ideas of what
> that meant and what it meant to fight a war. We
> were instructed not to pay
> any attention to them. But that was boot camp.
> Later on we went into the
> world and dealt with civilians. Did we sit down to
> tea with maiden aunts
> and brandish knives and guns? Of course not. Were
> we uncouth in social
> settings. Not at all.
>
>
>
> Am I convinced that your having met a few SAS
> members gives you insight into
> their nature as fighting men? Or that John
> McCreery's having a son-in-law
> does that for him? No. I don't think either of you
> can understand these men
> from that sort of exposure.
>
>
>
> If you want a better understanding of what being in
> the SAS is all about
> then read Andy McNab's autobiographical Immediate
> Action.
>
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/055214276X/qid=1147193390/sr=1-10/ref=sr_1_
> 10/103-0690183-3594264?s=books
>
<http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/055214276X/qid=1147193390/sr=1-10/ref=sr_1
> _10/103-0690183-3594264?s=books&v=glance&n=283155/>
> &v=glance&n=283155/
> This book was described as disclosing for the first
> time what being in the
> SAS was like. They were, and still are, a
> semi-secret fighting
> organization. Their name was originally intended to
> hide what they did.
> They weren't supposed to talk about what they did.
> Andy McNab was
> considered by some to have crossed the line with his
> book. He describes
> things he wasn't supposed to describe. If you were
> in the SAS you weren't
> supposed to talk about what you did. That is still
> the case. Thus, for
> someone to say they met some SAS soldiers and
> learned what they were all
> about doesn't seem convincing to me.
>
>
>
> In the Marines we were told it would be a waste of
> time to about what it meant to be a
> Marine. talk to civilians
> about fighting and warIn the SAS they
> were simply told don't talk about it.
>
>
>
> Lawrence
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: lit-ideas-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> [mailto:lit-ideas-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
> On Behalf Of Judith Evans
> Sent: Tuesday, May 09, 2006 9:10 AM
> To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: [lit-ideas] Re: Pacifistic expeditions in
> the Garden
>
>
>
> I said
>
>
>
> I
>
> > have met
>
> > ex-SAS officers (ex- because SAS service is
> short-term)
>
> > and they are not like that.
>
>
>
> and refuse to bow to your reading-McNab knowledge.
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
>
> From: "Lawrence Helm" <lawrencehelm@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
>
> To: <lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>
> Sent: Tuesday, May 09, 2006 2:52 PM
>
> Subject: [lit-ideas] Re: Pacifistic expeditions in
> the Garden
>
>
>
>
>
> > Read the bio of Andy McNab. They're exactly like
> that.
>
> >
>
> > Lawrence
>
> >
>
>
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