[lit-ideas] Re: The Long Struggle Against Islamofascism
- From: "Lawrence Helm"<lawrencehelm@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2007 23:06:02 +0000
I mean "the Iraqi Government" when I say "the Iraqi Government." I'll ignore
all the negative conjecture about what Maliki's government really thinks as
opposed to their stated positions.
As to your statistics, I assume you are referring to the ones in this poll:
http://www.worldpublicopinion.org/pipa/pdf/sep06/Iraq_Sep06_rpt.pdf dated
September 27,2006. If not, then cite the poll you are referring to. But if
you are, you aren't interpreting the results quite right. Yes, 71% want us
out, but not immediately. Notice that the question had to do with when the
people polled thought that the Maliki government would be capable of taking
care of its own defense. 37% thought that would occur in six months and 34%
thought it would occur in one year for a total of 71%. But are these people in
as good a position to know when the Maliki government will be self-sustaining
as the Maliki government? Yes, a year has gone by since that poll; so what do
the people polled think now? I guess someone will have to do another poll.
Speaking of polls, see my follow-up note entitled "counting the enemy."
As to your "rout," where do you get this stuff? Not from any one on the
ground. Not from anyone over there. Not from General Petraeus. Not from
Ambassador Crocker. Not from Maliki. So where do you get it? Leftist Osmosis?
Lawrence
------------Original Message------------
From: "Andreas Ramos" <andreas@xxxxxxxxxxx>
To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Date: Mon, Sep-17-2007 3:03 PM
Subject: [lit-ideas] Re: The Long Struggle Against Islamofascism
> And, of course, you are missing the point. The Iraqi government wants us
> to stay. The Iraqi government knows it is not yet ready to defend itself.
> As soon as the Iraqi government is in a position to defend itself then we
> can leave.
The Iraqi government? You mean, the Shiite-controlled Iraqi government? Yes,
of course they want us there for now: we are supplying weapons and cash.
However, at some point, they will have enough and then they'll throw us out.
The Shiite-controlled Iraqi government made up of war lords, many of which
are carrying out the murderous attacks on Sunni population. To put it in
terms that Lawrence understands, it's our guys who are doing most of the
killing in Iraq.
Since the point of this fiasco was to establish a democratic government, I
don't quite see why Lawrence wants to ignore the population. 79% want the
USA out; 57% approve the deadly attacks on US troops. It's all very nice
for Iraqi government officials to smile at us over cocktails at a diplomatic
event, but the US soldiers walk among population, where 60-80% who like to
see those soldiers blown up. It's impossible for soldiers to move in an
environment that hates them. So, yes, the population matters.
In other news today, Blackwater got thrown out of Iraq. A few days ago,
Blackwater troops fired into a crowd and killed 11 people. Blackwater is a
large mercenary army and it is currently being paid by the USA. Lawrence
will cheer Blackwater, because Blackwater fights on the USA side in Iraq, so
Blackwater is pro-US. It's easy to see why he would make that mistake.
Blackwater is mercenary and it is for hire to the highest bidder. What if
that bidder is Saudi Arabia? Iran? Pakistan? The Russian Mafia? "Nothing
personal, it's just business."
The Congressional hearings are over and more people are now talking about
the rout. Yes, rout. Forget a planned, organized withdrawal. For a
withdrawal to happen (tanks and equipment rolling out, everything packed up,
flutes playing), a military has to hold control of an area.
For the first two years, the US controlled Iraq militarily; they could move
around freely. If a truck or tank was damaged, repair vehicles could come
and pick up the tank. Yes, a sort of AAA automobile service. But around two
years ago, the US lost military control. Not even the short highway from
Baghdad airport to the Green Zone is under control; it's one long shooting
gallery. Not even the Green Zone is under control anymore. Several hundred
mortars and cannon fire land inside the Green Zone every month now. The
exact number is a White House secret, but it's 10-20 rounds per day, with
several deaths per day.
So I don't see an "organized, planned, and carried-out withdrawal." It's
going to be a rout, with mobs chasing tens of thousands of Americans. That
will be televised worldwide.
Several articles pointed out that the US military, the most advanced
military in the world, was defeated in Iraq by a unorganized insurrection
using little more than home-made bombs. There is no "Iraqi Freedom Front" or
"Iraqi Liberation Army". It's like every Iraqi is taking pot shots at the
USA.
These two things, the military defeat of the US and the rout, will be
catastrophic to the US, both emotionally and politically. The USA will no
longer be able to threaten countries nor be able to promise to protect its
allies.
Lawrence, it's your neocons who did this to the USA. Your neocons made
extremely stupid decisions and destroyed the USA. None of these people
accept responsibility. They blame others.
yrs,
andreas
www.andreas.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lawrence Helm" <lawrencehelm@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Sunday, September 16, 2007 9:18 AM
Subject: [lit-ideas] Re: The Long Struggle Against Islamofascism
> Andreas:
>
> Reality need not be illogical.
>
> And, of course, you are missing the point. The Iraqi government wants us
> to stay. The Iraqi government knows it is not yet ready to defend itself.
> As soon as the Iraqi government is in a position to defend itself then we
> can leave.
>
> And then, I describe those opposing the Iraqi government and you respond
> with people opposing the U.S. presence. That is an illogical response.
>
> Lawrence
>
>
>
>
> ------------Original Message------------
> From: "Andreas Ramos" <andreas@xxxxxxxxxxx>
> To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Date: Sun, Sep-16-2007 8:47 AM
> Subject: [lit-ideas] Re: The Long Struggle Against Islamofascism
>
> From: "Lawrence Helm" <lawrencehelm@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>
>> The main groups opposing the Iraqi government are 1) former Baathist
>> supporters of Saddam Hussein, 2) Al-Quaeda, and 3) Iran-supported Shia
>> malcontents.
>
> Lawrence, how about a bit of reality?
>
> A new poll shows 79 percent of Iraqis oppose the US presence in Iraq.
>
> 57 percent of Iraqi approve of attacks against US troops.
>
> The marginal "malcontents" are actually a large majority of the Iraqi
> people.
>
> yrs,
> andreas
> www.andreas.com
>
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