In a message dated 5/15/2009 10:52:05 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, donalmcevoyuk@xxxxxxxxxxx writes: "at [the v. point of] his death he cried out", and don't generally expect to have to thank a TLP-injecting smartarse for objecting, "No, that would have to been - by definition - a cry before [the v. point of] his death." ---- Yes, and he liked westerns too. Incidentally, a typicaly way of killing a cowboy (or western (man)) I was told, is _hang_ him. In a tree. Now, the interesting thing is that if you go to those trees, they smell. They smell of _ejaculate_. The reason was that the rope, making contact with the testicles (of the man hanging) provoked an _orgasm_ of sorts. "Before he died, he ejaculated" makes sense. The French, ever hyperbolic, think one can "petit-die" ("petty death" I call it). It's the orgasm itself. Which is odd since they don't have the West in France. Good point that if you take Wittgenstein's 6. ... tautological it's _not_ illuminating. But note that we hardly use 'die' in the present indicative, the signal of a 'fact' for Wittgenstein ('it rains'): Try to google for 'he dies' or 'she dies' or 'they die' or even the self-pragmatic contradiction, "I die" or the threat, 'you die' and the almost impossible to verify 'we die'. --- Oddly, P. Stone's anecdote reminded me of the book, "Geary's Son": "A book where I'll record all utterances by my son." "The other day I asked him, "Don't you have anything to say?" "He said, 'anything'. I guess he is hiding something." Cheers, JLS **************Recession-proof vacation ideas. Find free things to do in the U.S. (http://travel.aol.com/travel-ideas/domestic/national-tourism-week?ncid=emlcntustrav00000002) ------------------------------------------------------------------ To change your Lit-Ideas settings (subscribe/unsub, vacation on/off, digest on/off), visit www.andreas.com/faq-lit-ideas.html