A.A. > What laws? The laws of physics, of course. Good parenting cannot alter the laws of physics no matter how much you wish it could. I see no difference between your 'luck' and my 'fate', both speak of events beyond our control. A super-determinist would say (I think) that not only is everything beyond our control, but that there's no such thing as 'control', not as such, that there's only what is and what is is 'in ipso, per ipso, ex ipso control' -- or something like that, or another way of not explaining it: that there are no laws of physics, there's only physis which is what is because it is as it is. There's no separable governing principle, there's just physis. I love this kind of talk. Sounds profound but who knows what it means? I think know why they say that, but I'm not sure I agree. You say in your post you're a determinist, but everything you argue argues against that. A.A. (responding to: "I have no idea to what degree determinism 'determines' our lives.") >Luck, how well we're nurtured and how well our genes hold up. I don't know what this means. A.A. (responding to: "But maybe we're not determined. Perhaps we are agents acting variously freely in the world. Are we?") >If we're free agents, then we're evil. Thrown out of Grace, etc. I don't know what this means either. A.A.(responding to: "We don't have any choice but to live our lives as though we are creatures of free will.") >Then we're evil. Or lying to ourselves. I don't know what this means either. Mike Geary Memphis