In a message dated 6/15/2009 6:03:37 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, donalmcevoyuk@xxxxxxxxxxx writes: The causal theory of perception, what a crock: is seeing a seeming-lamp, seeing a lamp? What is important isn't this conceptual stuff but metaphysical realism or not: if we have adequate grounds for saying there is a lamp, it's not just seeming, it's a lamp. WoW by Grice google books: "Suppose that two people are considering the purchase of a tie which both of them KNOW to be medium-green. They look at the tie in different _lights_, and one of them says, 'It is a _light-green_ now.' The other comments, 'That may be, though it has a touch of blue in it in _this_ light.' --- "Strictly, it would be true to say, 'The tie _seems_ a light-green now' and 'The tie _seems_ to have a touch of blue in it under _this_ light, though' --- But, Grice adds, "it would be otiose for A and B to put in such qualificatory words since A and B know (and know that the other knows) that there is no question of a _real_ change of colour". -- uttered by Grice with R. Albritton as Chair, Emerson Hall, Harvard -- Dept of Philosophy, March 1967 ----- Grice keeps being a causalist. Consider Warnock in "On What Is Seen" and Grice's example: 'Macbeth saw Banquo'. "It would be otiose to deny that 'see' carries the entailment that what is seen exists by a loose talk like that." "If we do know that Macbeth did hallucinate, we can quite safely say (i) above even though Banquo was not there to be seen. And we should NOT conclude from this loose talk that the entailment of the existence of the visum is not part of what is meant, or, less so, that there are 'uses' of the word 'see' which Lack this 'entailment'!" ----- So "A disimplicates that q, by uttering p", Grice defined, _not_ as a mere denial of implicature, but as affirming 'negative' action: "A denies what is _entailed_ by the dictum, i.e. means less than he says" He thought disimplicatures were cowardly, irrational beasts to be avoided like the plague. But was the way of witches: they may not exist, but they do! Cheers, J. L. Speranza Buenos Aires, Argentina **************Download the AOL Classifieds Toolbar for local deals at your fingertips. (http://toolbar.aol.com/aolclassifieds/download.html?ncid=emlcntusdown00000004) ------------------------------------------------------------------ To change your Lit-Ideas settings (subscribe/unsub, vacation on/off, digest on/off), visit www.andreas.com/faq-lit-ideas.html