[lit-ideas] Re: The American Poor
- From: Carol Kirschenbaum <carolkir@xxxxxxxx>
- To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Wed, 24 May 2006 15:04:00 -0700
Lawrence intoned: Our poverty line is $8,900 per person.
ck: I think you're wrong here. That figure is for a family of four.
----- Original Message -----
From: Lawrence Helm
To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Wednesday, May 24, 2006 2:58 PM
Subject: [lit-ideas] Re: The American Poor
It doesn't sound as though you read the article that you seem to be
responding to because it seems to contradict some of your speculations:
http://www.heritage.org/Research/Welfare/bg1713.cfm
In regard to housing, you left out the fact that 46% of those below the
poverty line in the U.S. own their own homes The significance of the
statistics in the article I posted is that the absolute wealth of the bulk of
those below the American poverty line is above the average income of most of
our parents and above the average GDP per capita of, I suspect, of most of the
world's nations. Our poverty line is $8,900 per person. The average GDP per
person in Brazil, for example, is $8,400. See
http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/rankorder/2004rank.html
As to the cost of housing, you have provided some anecdotal evidence about
who can afford housing and who cannot at the present time. Forgetting for the
time being that 46% of those below the American poverty line already own their
own homes, I can't tell whether it is more or less difficulty to own a home in
the U.S. today. My anecdotal evidence doesn't support yours. I bought my
first home in about 1961 for about $17,800 and it was spooky taking on that
huge obligation. Things were tight. We had to stick to a budget. In about
1973 I sold my first home and bought a more expensive home for $50,000. Things
were touch and go for a long time after that. Time passed. I got divorced
lived in a studio apartment for awhile, remarried and in 1983 managed to buy a
condo for $125,000. I retired in 1998, sold my 1630 sq ft condo for $165,000
and bought a 2200 sq foot home in San Jacinto for $145,000. It is worth more
now than when we bought it, perhaps around $375,000 would be my guess, but that
is the nature of property values. They go up.
You might argue that the increase in the value of my house supports your
argument, but I bought the largest model available at the time. Smaller houses
sell for much less. The house I bought in 1961 was tiny - clearly in the
category of what they call a "starter." A starter today would be more
expensive but far less than $375,000 in San Jacinto or in any of the
neighboring towns. One of your anecdotes pertains to a location where housing
is unusually expensive. I'd like to hear from John McCreery what housing in
Japan costs.
Another anecdote: I recall engineers that had skipped around from company to
company and as a consequence would receive upon retirement a smaller income
from their several pensions than if they had stayed at one company. The
standard joke was for such an engineer to say that he was going to retire as
soon as his Social Security kicked in even if he had to live in a trailer park
in Bullhead City. It is a lot more expensive to live in Bullhead City than
when engineers used to say that, but there are cheaper places to live than
single-family dwellings. I know people who upon retirement sold their homes
and moved into very nice trailer parks and claim to be deliriously happy.
One more anecdote: Housing is cheaper in my valley than in Orange County to
the North or San Diego County to the South where the better paying jobs; so
lots of people are opting to drive long distances to work.
Lawrence
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: lit-ideas-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:lit-ideas-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
On Behalf Of Carol Kirschenbaum
Sent: Wednesday, May 24, 2006 1:53 PM
To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [lit-ideas] Re: The American Poor
>The average poor American has more living space than the average individual
>living in Paris, London, Vienna, Athens, and other cities throughout Europe.
ck: Lawrence inadvertantly hits upon the single most important factor in
American poverty today--the increasing price of housing in the US. Rental
housing, too, of course. Although rising real estate prices is also troubling
in Europe, the ability to live *inside* is a sina qua non for all the other
goodies Lawrence lists, as well as for the ability to obtain and maintain
employment, general stability, etc. In the US today, a family of four cannot
afford rent for an apartment, if two adults earning minimum wage. Anywhere. In
any county. (This from a study that was headline news within the past year,
then sank into obscurity. Wish I had it to quote now, however. Ehrenreich's
_Nickel & Dimed_ makes the point in real life terms.)
Housing, I would argue, is the most critical element in avoiding a total
poverty cycle of chronic unemployment, malnutrition, death by preventable and
treatable diseases--all of which we have in abundance in the US. But housing
costs are through the roof, and there's no cap on rental prices whatsoever in
most states. (Used to be one in NYC, but that's almost gone.)
What happens to people on fixed incomes, whether that income is from the
state or an invested pension? What happens to the elderly and disabled, who are
more likely to be in that fixed income fix? Right now, some counties in some
states are stepping up, though in baby steps, to fill gaps left by the Bushies'
withdrawal of such little helpers as federally subsidized housing vouchers. In
my county, and in my state, the vouchers ran out three years ago. No new names
allowed. There's no waiting list. Likely, there'll be no more housing vouchers
in the future.
Remember all that talk about homelessness? About the blight, the tragedy of
it, the simple fact of it in America? My mother (who lost her
rent-stabilization last week, after 55 years of living in the same NYC
apartment) asked me about that. "What have they done with them? Killed them?"
Probably not, I told her, but a number with mental illnesses went into prisons
(mercy arrests turned longterm), and if you're sick and homeless, the "in"
thing this year is to mutter "Katrina." But as Lawrence says, we don't need any
pansy-assed welfare state or safety net in this country. We're free! Just be
careful when you park in a neighborhood that's a little more free than others.
Carol,
free in barren Fresno County ("Mini-mansions for under $1 million!!!")
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