[lit-ideas] Re: Text of bin Laden Tape

  • From: "Mike Geary" <atlas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • To: <lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • Date: Fri, 20 Jan 2006 21:15:11 -0600

Why do you read all that neocon claptrap, Lawrence?  They've been wrong from 
day one.  They're just greed driven men, scared little boys, really.  The whole 
world told Bush, et al. not to do this, but oh no, they knew best.  They are, 
after all, Americans.  Sorry, guy, the rest world still says we're wrong and I 
still agree with the rest of the world.

Mike Geary
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Lawrence Helm 
  To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx 
  Sent: Friday, January 20, 2006 8:56 PM
  Subject: [lit-ideas] Re: Text of bin Laden Tape

  As I said elsewhere, Osama bin Laden and the Islamists understand how 
important Iraq is.  They are opposing us there with all they have.  It is 
complicated, but I could refer you to several books on the matter if you are 
interested.  For example, the founder of Stratfor, the private organization 
that provides Intelligence info to companies and other interested in 
international affairs, George Friedman in America's Secret War, Inside the 
Hidden Worldwide Struggle between America and its Enemies, describes how the 
removal of Saddam's regime was important in the war against the Islamists.  

  See also, Kennet Pollack's The Treatening Storm, the Case for Invading Iraq., 
The Reckoning, Iraq and the Legacy of Saddam Hussein by Sandra Mackey, and The 
Pentagon's New Map, War and Peace in the Twenty-First Century by Thomas Barnett.



  From: lit-ideas-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:lit-ideas-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] 
On Behalf Of Andy Amago
  Sent: Friday, January 20, 2006 6:50 PM
  To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
  Subject: [lit-ideas] Re: Text of bin Laden Tape

  The Islamists hate us.  Iraq has no Islamists.  We invade Iraq.  Iraq becomes 
flooded with Islamists and we're into a trillion dollar war with no way out.  
Those are living non-sequiturs, but who cares about that, right?  I give up 
talking to you Lawrence.  I'm out to get my own personal windmill and tilt 
against it, hope the Islamists go away.

    ----- Original Message ----- 

    From: Lawrence Helm 

    To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx

    Sent: 1/20/2006 9:40:29 PM 

    Subject: [lit-ideas] Re: Text of bin Laden Tape

    Hi John.  

    Okay, lets clean this up a bit.  It would be a valid argument to say that 
the Islamists do not intend to conquer us and therefore we shouldnt be 
attacking them.  However, I dont believe you can produce the evidence to 
support such an argument.  Not only do the writings of Sayyid Qutb and Ruhollah 
Khomeini (the main Sunni and Shiite Islamist ideologues) advocate such an 
attack, the followers of these ideologues are actively engaged in carrying out 
these attacks.  

    Also, I dont think you are correct in your argument that the Islamist 
insurgents represent Iraq.  Well over 70% of Iraqis showed up to vote in the 
last election indicating that they favor a democratic government and not the 
Islamist insurgents.  We are viewed as liberators by those who want democracy 
(the bulk of the Iraqis).  We are viewed as conquerors by the fascist 

    We have freed Iraq from a brutal dictator.  We are encouraging the 
development of democracy in Iraq.  We will leave when this new government can 
handle its own insurgents.  

    Who says we are conquerors?  The Islamists and anti-Americans.  

    Who says we are liberators?  The people favoring democracy in Iraq.

    You spoke of evidence.  Over the years I have produced evidence in 
copious and sometimes objectionable quantities.  I have been known to challenge 
those who argue with me to produce evidence to support their arguments.  Do you 
have evidence to show that the Islamists arent attacking us?  Do have evidence 
that the Islamists have not declared war against us?  Do you have evidence that 
the Islamists and other insurgents represent the will of the majority in Iraq?


    -----Original Message-----
    From: lit-ideas-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx 
[mailto:lit-ideas-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of John McCreery
    Sent: Friday, January 20, 2006 6:15 PM
    To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
    Subject: [lit-ideas] Re: Text of bin Laden Tape

    Hi, Lawrence. Good to see you here.

    I'll even agree that we need to oppose those who want to conquer us.

    Problem No. 1 is that, at this point, the evidence is all on the side

    of we want to conquer them and not vice versa. We proclaim our good

    intentions, but, hey, so do they. They say that they will attack us

    until we are off what they see as their turf. They commit terrorist

    acts (which I in no way condone) to demonstrate their seriousness;

    but, when push comes to shove, we are the ones with armies invading

    and occupying other countries.

    What was it Christ said? The bit about the beam in one's own eye

    before the mote in the other guys? Not to mention turning the cheek

    and loving them that hate you?


    John McCreery

    The Word Works, Ltd.

    55-13-202 Miyagaya, Nishi-ku

    Yokohama 220-0006, JAPAN


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