[lit-ideas] Re: Text of bin Laden Tape

  • From: "Andy Amago" <aamago@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
  • Date: Fri, 20 Jan 2006 21:50:16 -0500

The Islamists hate us.  Iraq has no Islamists.  We invade Iraq.  Iraq becomes 
flooded with Islamists and we're into a trillion dollar war with no way out.  
Those are living non-sequiturs, but who cares about that, right?  I give up 
talking to you Lawrence.  I'm out to get my own personal windmill and tilt 
against it, hope the Islamists go away.


----- Original Message ----- 
From: Lawrence Helm 
To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: 1/20/2006 9:40:29 PM 
Subject: [lit-ideas] Re: Text of bin Laden Tape


Hi John.  

Okay, let?s clean this up a bit.  It would be a valid argument to say that the 
Islamists do not intend to conquer us and therefore we shouldn?t be attacking 
them.  However, I don?t believe you can produce the evidence to support such an 
argument.  Not only do the writings of Sayyid Qutb and Ruhollah Khomeini (the 
main Sunni and Shiite Islamist ideologues) advocate such an attack, the 
followers of these ideologues are actively engaged in carrying out these 
attacks.  

Also, I don?t think you are correct in your argument that the Islamist 
insurgents represent Iraq.  Well over 70% of Iraqis showed up to vote in the 
last election indicating that they favor a democratic government and not the 
Islamist insurgents.  We are viewed as liberators by those who want democracy 
(the bulk of the Iraqis).  We are viewed as conquerors by the fascist 
Islamists.  

We have freed Iraq from a brutal dictator.  We are encouraging the development 
of democracy in Iraq.  We will leave when this new government can handle its 
own insurgents.  

Who says we are conquerors?  The Islamists and anti-Americans.  

Who says we are liberators?  The people favoring democracy in Iraq.

You spoke of ?evidence.?  Over the years I have produced ?evidence? in copious 
and sometimes objectionable quantities.  I have been known to challenge those 
who argue with me to produce evidence to support their arguments.  Do you have 
evidence to show that the Islamists aren?t attacking us?  Do have evidence that 
the Islamists have not declared war against us?  Do you have evidence that the 
Islamists and other insurgents represent the will of the majority in Iraq?

Lawrence

-----Original Message-----
From: lit-ideas-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:lit-ideas-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On 
Behalf Of John McCreery
Sent: Friday, January 20, 2006 6:15 PM
To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [lit-ideas] Re: Text of bin Laden Tape

Hi, Lawrence. Good to see you here.

I'll even agree that we need to oppose those who want to conquer us.
Problem No. 1 is that, at this point, the evidence is all on the side
of we want to conquer them and not vice versa. We proclaim our good
intentions, but, hey, so do they. They say that they will attack us
until we are off what they see as their turf. They commit terrorist
acts (which I in no way condone) to demonstrate their seriousness;
but, when push comes to shove, we are the ones with armies invading
and occupying other countries.

What was it Christ said? The bit about the beam in one's own eye
before the mote in the other guys? Not to mention turning the cheek
and loving them that hate you?

John
John McCreery
The Word Works, Ltd.
55-13-202 Miyagaya, Nishi-ku
Yokohama 220-0006, JAPAN
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