[lit-ideas] Re: Suicide in Europe
- From: Judith Evans <judithevans001@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Sun, 21 Nov 2010 10:12:16 +0000 (GMT)
Yes, that is the thesis (the suicide rates thing plus 'second cause of death'
is Bruce Thornton). Thank you, Mike. I muddied the waters a bit by going on
about teenagers: there's been a mini-spate of teenage suicides in a nearby
town, it's worrying; the town is, like much of South Wales, economically
depressed, that's dispiriting... sorry. anyway
Judy Evans, Cardiff
--- On Sun, 21/11/10, Mike Geary <jejunejesuit.geary2@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
From: Mike Geary <jejunejesuit.geary2@xxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [lit-ideas] Re: Suicide in Europe
To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Date: Sunday, 21 November, 2010, 2:10
My older brother emigrated to Denmark in 1965. I made fun of Denmark remarking
on how high their suicide rate was. Emory didn't try to deny it or excuse it.
He said, yes, when the Danes lose their ability to cope, they kill themselves,
whereas Americans kill each other. He said he'd prefer to live among those who
might kill themselves as opposed to those who might kill him. Made sense to me.
The saying, "Suicide is a permanent solution to a temporary problem" rings very
true to those who are not suicidal. But the decision not to exist is not a
rational one. It's a screw up in brain chemistry. Lawrence's thesis that the
higher suicide rate in many European countries assumes that their decisions
was driven by perceptions of cultural malaise or whatever the hell it is
Lawrence accuses Europe of. That's just silly.
Mike Geary
Memphis
On Sat, Nov 20, 2010 at 5:47 PM, carol kirschenbaum <carolkir@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Maybe I'm missing something, but it seems this study merely says that suicide
is more prevalent than murder. How else can one die, if not from illness or
accident?
ck
On Sat, Nov 20, 2010 at 2:28 PM, Lawrence Helm <lawrencehelm@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
wrote:
Judy,
Thornton published his book in 2007. His references on the subject of suicide
are
"European suicide rates: World Health Organization, Suicide Prevention in
Europe (2002),
"American: National Institute for Mental Health, In Harms Wary: Suicide in
America (2003)."
Thornton probably didn't have the 2004 edition of WHO's book on suicide when he
wrote his own book. Interestingly, WHO's reputation doesn't seem sterling:
http://info-wars.org/2009/11/26/world-health-organization-manufactured-the-global-swine-flu-scare-suspected-of-corruption/
http://www.americanchronicle.com/articles/view/111867
http://www.rense.com/general88/megawho.htm
http://www.forces.org/evidence/who/index.htm
Of course Thornton's "suicide" has most to do with the reduction of the
production of children and the importation of immigrants to make up the short
fall so the European elderly can continue their retirement entitlements. A
lot that is in his book seems a rehashing of material I've read elsewhere. My
own tangent was based more on books I read about Europe (including those by
Tony Judt) after World War II than Thornton's reference to actual suicide, that
is, I had been thinking about that for some time. Why the West has bifurcated,
Western Europe one way and America (or Anglo-America?) another is something I
have an ongoing interest in.
Lawrence
From: lit-ideas-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:lit-ideas-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
Behalf Of Judith Evans
Sent: Friday, November 19, 2010 11:50 AM
To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [lit-ideas] Re: Europe, World War II, Suicide and Jason Bourne
I am not sure what the various figures actually measure, Lawrence, but for what
it's worth, reported/recorded suicide rates in European countries are not
uniformly higher than in the USA. Also I don't know what Thornton's sources
are, but mine say Luxemburg's figures are more or less identical to the USA's.
That leaves us, pending further investigation, with four European countries
with higher suicide rates than those of the US and of other European countries.
more importantly, Thornton says (I copy the quotation from your blog)
"in many European countries, suicide is the second leading cause of death,
after accidents,"
in fact, it's the second leading cause of death, *disease apart*, **among
teenagers** in Europe (according to a WHO report of 2004). (This teenage
suicide rate varies greatly across Europe.)
That's worrying but doesn't really support your overall thesis.
Judy Evans, Cardiff, UK
and France's suicide rate is about twice that of the United States', as
--- On Fri, 19/11/10, Lawrence Helm <lawrencehelm@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
From: Lawrence Helm <lawrencehelm@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [lit-ideas] Europe, World War II, Suicide and Jason Bourne
To: "Lit-Ideas" <Lit-Ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Date: Friday, 19 November, 2010, 18:08
http://www.lawrencehelm.com/2010/11/europe-world-war-ii-suicide-and-jason.html
Lawrence
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