M. Chase wrote: >Stupid machine! M. Geary asked for proof. >Show me a stupid machine. Implicaturing that Chase was overreacting. Interestingly, I'd say the meaning "Stupid machine!" depends, on occasion, on the meaning of 'stupid' and 'machine' -- the first cite in English for 'stupid' is 1541; the first cite for 'machine' is 1845. I wonder what the first cite is for Chase's collocation, 'stupid machine' -- Descartes, possibly. Cheers, JL GearyL >Machines are never stupid. 'stupid' ad. L. stupidus, f. <NOBR>s to be stunned or benumbed. Cf. F. stupide (Rabelais), Sp., Pg. estúpido, It. stupido. Wanting in or slow of mental perception; lacking ordinary activity of mind; slow-witted, dull. 1541 _R. COPLAND_ (http://0-dictionary.oed.com.csulib.ctstateu.edu/help/bib/oed2-c3.html#r-copland) Galyen's Terap. 2Biijb, For the first speak over lightly and too imprudently,..and the other are altogether stupid, sturdy, and litigious. 'machine' [< Middle French, French machine < classical Latin <NOBR>m (cf. macigno n.) < ancient Greek (Doric) mackana (cf. ancient Greek (Attic) mechane: see mechanic a. *AND NOUN* [emphasis mine -- JLS, cf. Geary 'The Mechanic As Noun', Papers in the Parts of Speech, vol. 2 -- section 4] and n.), prob. related to mekhos â??means, expedient, remedyâ??, perh. ult. < the Indo-European base of 'may' v.1 Cf. Spanish máquina (1444), Italian macchina (15th cent.); German Maschine, Dutch machine, Swedish maskin are all 17th-cent. borrowings from French. The sense â??a fabric or structure, esp. the fabric of the universeâ?? is present in classical Latin (but not in ancient Greek), and is the first one attested in Middle French (1377). The sense â??stratagemâ?? is not present in classical Latin and is only attested in French from 1639; it is sparingly attested in post-classical Latin in British sources from Aldhelm to William of Malmesbury (and similarly machinamentum 'machinament' n. down to the end of the 13th cent.), but is in English prob. independently < machine, v. 1: cf. ancient Greek mekanai, â??shifts, devices, wilesâ??, and the Italian sense â??a conspiracie, a stratagem, a contriuingâ?? recorded by Florio (1598). The application to the living human and animal body is a development of sense 1a; cf. the similar sense in French â??the combination of organs of a living bodyâ?? first attested in Descartes (1637). The sense â??vehicleâ?? (without the connotation â?? mechanismâ??) appears to be a distinctively English development of sense 1a: in French (from 1817 denoting a bicycle), Dutch, and German, such use is restricted to metonymic use for a vehicle with a â??mechanismâ?? or â??engineâ?? (as a bicycle, automobile, locomotive, aeroplane, etc.). Sense 6, â??apparatus, appliance, instrumentâ??, is one of the earliest senses in ancient Greek, common in classical Latin and post-classical Latin, and attested from 1559 in Middle French and French. The sense â??penisâ??, developed from it, is also attested in French, in 1748 and 1750. The sense â??military engineâ?? is in ancient Greek from Thucydides onwards, and is common in classical Latin and post-classical Latin; it is first attested in French in 1671. The sense â??a large work (of art)â?? is attested in French from 1566, and the theatrical use (sense 4a) from 1650. [The sense of 'car' is Italian, only, -- 'che bella machina'] A number of passages imply by their metre that the word could be stressed on the first syllable in earlier modern English (e.g. quot. 1599 at sense 1a: the latest evidence below is quot. 1702 at sense 1c). The earliest evidence for stress on the second syllable is quot. 1681 at sense 4.] A material or immaterial structure, esp. the fabric of the world or of the universe; a construction or edifice. Now rare. First cite: 1545 in J. Schäfer Early Mod. Eng. Lexicogr. (1989) II. s.v., The hole machyne of this world is divided in .2. parte. That is to saye, in the celestiall and into the elementall regions. 1545 in J. Schäfer Early Mod. Eng. Lexicogr. (1989) II. s.v., Machine, hath many significacions, but here it is taken for the worke of the hole worlde. ------------------------------------------------------------------ To change your Lit-Ideas settings (subscribe/unsub, vacation on/off, digest on/off), visit www.andreas.com/faq-lit-ideas.html