Lawrence, it really is awkward if you regularly post links to comments you make in another context. To respond on this list to comments made elsewhere is to put at a disadvantage those who don't follow your link. And to expect people to visit your blog in order to understand comments made on this list is self-serving. On his blog, Lawrence quotes from an interview with Soeren Kern, who is supposed to be some kind of expert on European security issues. I haven't read anything by Kern, so I don't know if he is any good or not, but from what Lawrence quotes, Kern can't be providing much useful when it comes to Islam and Muslims. Lawrence approvingly quotes Kern: "But the proliferation of Sharia law in Germany suggests Merkel is mistaken. Sharia law now does apply in Germany." First, the increase of something does not make it authoritative, legal, representative or anything else other than the increase of something. The increase in nutty talk about returning to the gold standard does not mean there is a return to the gold standard. Second, the term 'Sharia law' is being used ambiguously. All Muslims are expected to live according to Sharia. In this sense, Sharia is a set of very general principles meant to guide all Muslims in how they live their lives. Examples of this might be avoiding drinking alcohol and refraining from usurious financial dealings. This sense of Sharia does not provide specifics for daily life, such as whether one should never drink alcohol or merely avoid drunkenness, or what counts as a usurious financial practice or what counts as an approved financial practice. Sharia law, in this sense, is applied everywhere there are faithful Muslims. There is also a tremendous amount of disagreement about the nature of this Sharia. For example, I was at a conference where Muslims engaged in very heated argument over whether Sharia was one, eternal and unchanging, or whether there were multiple Sharias that changed according to different interpretations relative to time and place. An example of someone who is trying to 'modernize' Sharia is Abdullahi Ahmed An-na'im, whose writings I would highly recommend for those interested. Sharia is a set of general principles which need to be applied in specific cases. This application is done through fiqh, which is a kind of legal reasoning that attempts to apply general rules to individual cases. Sunni Muslims have four main traditions of fiqh, Shi'i have two, and then there are a multitude of minor fiqh traditions. Each of these traditions of fiqh have unique ways of applying Sharia to daily life, guiding everything from the details of how to hold ones hands while praying, to issues like marriage, divorce and inheritance. Within these traditions, there would be a great deal of variation depending on culture and who is doing fiqh. If a Muslim has a question regarding some aspect of faithfulness, they might go to an expert in fiqh to ask for guidance. (In my experience, Muslims don't always take this advice and often will shop around to find someone who will give the advice they prefer.) In this sense, there would be 'Sharia courts', which would be a formal setting where an expert in fiqh would give advice on how to apply Sharia to specific cases. These judges do not have any authority for Muslims beyond their reputation as experts, and cannot enforce their judgments. In my experience, Muslims are often very creative in how they apply the judgments of these courts, making adjustments as deemed necessary. It is very likely that these courts are operating anywhere there is a large enough community of Muslims. While many of the issues addressed in this kind of Sharia court would not fall under civil law, for example, how to celebrate Islamic holidays in a non-Muslim country, some would. The obvious examples are marriage, divorce and inheritance. Lawrence refers to a case where a German court seems to have acknowledged fiqh regarding Islamic marriages and issues of inheritance. The writer of the article takes this to be deference to Sharia law, however, and I am not a lawyer, it seems to me to be deference to the wishes of the dead man, as evidenced by the dead man's commitment to a particular understanding of Sharia. That is, if one wants to discern the intentions of a dead man, one might refer to the beliefs he held as a guide. This is hardly deference to those beliefs. In this way, where reasoning about religious beliefs can contribute to settling civil disputes, I don't see any problem with religious courts, whether Muslim, Jewish or other, being adopted under a larger system of constitutional law. These courts would not be a parallel legal system, since their judgments are not legally binding beyond the authority granted by civil law and not enforced by an authority outside of the state. Finally, there are civil legal systems that are understood as being Sharia, with Sharia civil laws. Examples of this would be found in Saudi Arabia and Iran, and what I saw in parts of Indonesia. In Aceh, Indonesia, it is the law that Muslim women have to wear the hijab and that all Muslims observe Ramadan. This is obviously not the case in Germany, Britain or any other Western country. However, Kern and Lawrence both imply that this is or might be the case. A German court recognizing that a Muslim man will have intentions that accord with his religious faith is tantamount to instituting that faith as civil law, leading inexorably to the excesses so gleefully noted by many critics. I think Lawrence and Kern are both badly mistaken about the so-called threat of Islam in the West. First, it badly misunderstands Islam, and in this case Sharia. Second, it vastly overestimates the unity of Islam and Muslims, ignoring divisions and schismatic tendencies. Muslims as a whole agree on very little, if anything, and the idea that they represent a threat to anything or anyone except themselves is to enter the realm of fantasy. Individuals and groups of individuals can of course be dangerous, but this has nothing to do with religion. Sincerely, Phil Enns ------------------------------------------------------------------ To change your Lit-Ideas settings (subscribe/unsub, vacation on/off, digest on/off), visit www.andreas.com/faq-lit-ideas.html