[lit-ideas] Re: See SAW

  • From: "Lawrence Helm" <lawrencehelm@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • To: <lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • Date: Sat, 6 May 2006 13:57:31 -0700

Once again, there is a problem with your logic.  You quote me as asking,
"Are you arguing that the largely Shiite government doesn't want our
continued support?"  


You follow with what you obviously feel is an adequate response to my
question and provide a USA Today survey of the Iraqi people.  How does a
survey of the Iraqi people answer a question about what the "largely Shiite
government" wants?  Answer: it doesn't.  


However, let us ignore the fact that you haven't shown that the largely
Shiite government no longer wants our support and look at the survey (for
what it is worth, not for answering my question, which it doesn't):


Notice in question 2 which sources they get their news from.  Are these
pro-American & British sources?  Not for the most part.


Question 8 says that 61% of the Shiites (not 80%) want the US & British
forces out immediately.  Note that 96% of the Kurds want us to stay.


Question 16 shows more Shiites saying they would fell less safe (after US &
British forces leave) than those who feel more safe.


Question 23 may be the most revealing of the lot.  It asks whether the
US/British invasion of Iraq was worth it (despite whatever hardships they
suffered) to get rid of Saddam.  74% of the Shiites and 97% of the Kurds
said it was worth it.  Only 28% of the Sunnis said it was worth it.  




-----Original Message-----
From: lit-ideas-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:lit-ideas-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
On Behalf Of Andreas Ramos
Sent: Saturday, May 06, 2006 12:54 PM
To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [lit-ideas] Re: See SAW


Lawence asks


> Are you arguing that the largely Shiite government doesn't want our
continued support?


Do you care what I think? Let's ask the Iraqi Shiites. They want the USA out
of Iraq.


This isn't a recent development. Look at a USA Today, April 2004 article:
"Only a third of 

the Iraqi people now believe that the American-led occupation of their
country is doing more 

good than harm, and a solid majority support an immediate military pullout
even though they 

fear that could put them in greater danger, according to a new USA
TODAY/CNN/Gallup Poll. 

That figure reaches 81% if the separatist, pro-U.S. Kurdish minority in
northern Iraq is not 

included. The negative characterization is just as high among the Shiite
Muslims who were 

oppressed for decades by Saddam as it is among the Sunni Muslims who
embraced him."




Hmmm, 80% of the Shiites want the US out.


The Shiite government has asked the US for a timetable (i.e., a deadline)
for US withdrawal.




The Shiite government has asked the US to stop interfering in security.




And Sadr's bloc, a leading bloc in the Shiite government, wants the US out


But, hey, that's reality, and we know reality has a liberal bias.







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