[lit-ideas] Re: Russian?
- From: carol kirschenbaum <carolkir@xxxxxxxxx>
- To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Thu, 2 Jan 2014 17:56:37 -0800
Hmmm...This thread keeps reminding me of my Russian grandmother and her
"cup" of tea--which was always actually a "glass" of tea, Tea in Russia
used to be taken in a glass--that is, made of glass, and the shape of
glass. (I'm harkening back to the turn of the century, at least.) Were
there cups? Not among all the Russian-Jewish immigrants I knew back then.
You drank from a glass, whether the liquid was hot or cold. My grandparents
did not use cups. (Later on, they acquired some from their embarrassed
children.) There was one cup--the shabbos cup--made of silver.
So...I wonder whether the word for "cup" in Russian is a rather new concept
(and word) for the peasant classes. (I have a vague memory of seeing fancy
Russian cups in museums.)
In the 60s, Corning came out with cups made of glass. Didn't go over with
the grandparents.
But all this was before Walmart homogenized us.
Carol
On Thu, Jan 2, 2014 at 5:27 PM, Julie Krueger <juliereneb@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> One more attempt at clarity. Perhaps the cold has frozen my brain. The
> way I'm accustomed to daily use of English, one can drink out of a glass
> (made of) cup (shape) or a glass (made of) glass (shape), a plastic cup, or
> a plastic glass, but the noun indicates the shape while the adjective can
> specify the material it's made of.
>
> It isn't in and of itself a big deal, but since it's given as "the"
> example in the article of the premise of the article, it gave me pause.
>
> Julie Campbell
> Julie's Music & Language Studio
> 1215 W. Worley
> Columbia, MO 65203
> 573-881-6889
> https://juliesmusicandlanguagestudio.musicteachershelper.com/
> http://www.facebook.com/JuliesMusicLanguageStudio
>
>
>
> On Thu, Jan 2, 2014 at 7:21 PM, Julie Krueger <juliereneb@xxxxxxxxx>wrote:
>
>> May I revise my statement about English? I should have said that in the
>> part of the country I live in, American English does pretty much use "cup"
>> and "glass" to indicate the shape of a container, rather than what it is
>> made of. Which, oddly to me, is what the quote indicates about the Russian
>> distinction (and "juxtaposes" it with the English distinction). So either
>> she meant to say that Russian distinguishes between cup and glass based on
>> what they are made of, or Russian doesn't differ from English in this
>> particular case, or my understanding of the English useage is either faulty
>> or narrow. I'm trying to figure out which...
>>
>> Julie Campbell
>> Julie's Music & Language Studio
>> 1215 W. Worley
>> Columbia, MO 65203
>> 573-881-6889
>> https://juliesmusicandlanguagestudio.musicteachershelper.com/
>> http://www.facebook.com/JuliesMusicLanguageStudio
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Jan 2, 2014 at 7:12 PM, <Jlsperanza@xxxxxxx> wrote:
>>
>>> Ia message dated 1/2/2014 7:58:57 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
>>> juliereneb@xxxxxxxxx writes:
>>> cups and glasses, but in Russian, the difference between chashka (cup)
>>> and
>>> stakan (glass) is based on shape, not material.>>I wonder if she meant
>>> to
>>> say the opposite? To me, in English, the difference between "cup" and
>>> "glass" usually is the shape. Is that different in Russian?
>>>
>>> Mmmm
>>>
>>> I wonder.
>>>
>>> But then I would think that:
>>>
>>> That glass is made of glass.
>>>
>>> is what philosophers (or Witters at any rate) would call a tautology,
>>> i.e.
>>> an item that does not "speak" about the world.
>>>
>>> Revising the etymologies may help, though -- or then, confuse one
>>> further!
>>> :) -- below.
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>>
>>> Speranza
>>>
>>> ---
>>>
>>> cup:
>>>
>>> from online source: Etymology Online:
>>>
>>> Old English cuppe, from Late Latin cuppa "cup" (source of Italian coppa,
>>> Spanish copa, Old French coupe "cup"), from Latin cupa "tub, cask, tun,
>>> barrel," from PIE *keup- "a hollow" (cf. Sanskrit kupah "hollow, pit,
>>> cave,"
>>> Greek kype "a kind of ship," Old Church Slavonic kupu, Lithuanian
>>> kaupas).
>>> The Late Latin word was borrowed throughout Germanic; cf. Old Frisian
>>> kopp
>>> "cup, head," Middle Low German kopp "cup," Middle Dutch coppe, Dutch
>>> kopje
>>> "cup, head." German cognate Kopf now means exclusively "head" (cf.
>>> French
>>> tête, from Latin testa "potsherd"). Meaning "part of a bra that holds a
>>> breast" is from 1938. [One's] cup of tea "what interests one" (1932),
>>> earlier
>>> used of persons (1908), the sense being "what is invigorating."
>>>
>>> glass:
>>> Old English glæs "glass, a glass vessel," from West Germanic *glasam (cf.
>>> Old Saxon glas, Middle Dutch and Dutch glas, German Glas, Old Norse gler
>>> "glass, looking glass," Danish glar), from PIE *ghel- "to shine,
>>> glitter" (cf.
>>> Latin glaber "smooth, bald," Old Church Slavonic gladuku, Lithuanian
>>> glodus "smooth"), with derivatives referring to colors and bright
>>> materials, a
>>> word that is the root of widespread words for gray, blue, green, and
>>> yellow
>>> (cf. Old English glær "amber," Latin glaesum "amber," Old Irish glass
>>> "green, blue, gray," Welsh glas "blue;" see Chloe). Sense of "drinking
>>> glass" is
>>> early 13c.
>>> The glass slipper in "Cinderella" is perhaps an error by Charles
>>> Perrault, translating in 1697, mistaking Old French voir "ermine, fur"
>>> for verre
>>> "glass." In other versions of the tale it is a fur slipper. The proverb
>>> about
>>> people in glass houses throwing stones is attested by 1779, but earlier
>>> forms go back to 17c.:
>>> Who hath glass-windows of his own must take heed how he throws stones at
>>> his house. ... He that hath a body made of glass must not throw stones
>>> at
>>> another. [John Ray, "Handbook of Proverbs," 1670]
>>>
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>>
>>
>
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