[lit-ideas] Re: Rome in 389-386 B.C. -- seeking peace
- From: Judith Evans <judithevans001@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2010 08:56:35 +0100 (BST)
Lawrence
so your argument is that it's only wrong to support Hussein when the US does
not support it? I thought the argument against backing Hussein was a moral
one, too.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
My focus on France was France. France sided with Germany during World War II.
After the war, De Gaulle declared the Vichy government to be illegitimate.
Thus, he successfully avoided France being lumped with Germany as Western
antagonists during WWII.
<<<<<<<<<<<<
I fail to see how
>>>>>>>>>>
He, De Gaulle, was therefore free to disallow and take no responsibility for
anything the Vichy government did.
<<<<<<<<<<
can be seen as anything other than an attack on de Gaulle and an implication he
should be held to account for Vichy. But if it is not, what is it?
Judy Evans, Cardiff
--- On Tue, 26/10/10, Lawrence Helm <lawrencehelm@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
From: Lawrence Helm <lawrencehelm@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [lit-ideas] Re: Rome in 389-386 B.C. -- seeking peace
To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Date: Tuesday, 26 October, 2010, 0:01
Your quibbles aren't accurate, Judy. Judy, Yes, during the cold war "the
enemy of my enemy is my friend." Also, the U.S. backed Saddam against Khomeini
as the lesser of two evils, which he most certainly was, but later "after the
Cold War," when Saddam attacked a U.S. ally, Saddam became America's enemy.
The Cold War was over and we no longer employed Cold-War philosophy. But in
general, it is possible for a nation to be a friend one year and ten years
later to become an enemy. The history of Rome is full of such examples. My
focus on France was France. France sided with Germany during World War II.
After the war, De Gaulle declared the Vichy government to be illegitimate.
Thus, he successfully avoided France being lumped with Germany as Western
antagonists during WWII. Lawrence From: lit-ideas-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:lit-ideas-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Judith Evans
Sent: Monday, October 25, 2010 1:02 PM
To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [lit-ideas] Re: Rome in 389-386 B.C. -- seeking peace Lawrence, you
say
>>>>>>>>>>
Several European nations decided to back Saddam Hussein, one of America's
enemies, after the Cold War. They didn't actually join Saddam in his battle
against the U.S., but then neither did the Latins and Hernici join the actual
battle against Rome. But there was support, and this support inspired Rome's
and America's enemies to fight. They thought that with the support they had
been pledged, they could win.
<<<<<<<<<<<<<
nothing like rewriting history.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>The United States supported Iraq during the Iran–Iraq
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>War as a counterbalance to post-revolutionary Iran.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>This support included several billion dollars worth of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>economic aid, the sale of dual-use technology,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>non-U.S. origin weaponry, military intelligence,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Special Operations training, and direct involvement in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>warfare against Iran.[3][4]Support from the U.S. for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Iraq was not a secret and was frequently discussed in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>open session of the Senate and House of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Representatives,
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Saddam Hussein in the past was seen by U.S. intelligence services as a bulwark
of anti-communism in the 1960s and 1970s.[
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
U.S. DOCUMENTS SHOW EMBRACE OF SADDAM HUSSEIN IN EARLY 1980s
DESPITE CHEMICAL WEAPONS, EXTERNAL AGGRESSION, HUMAN RIGHTS ABUSES
<<<<<<<<<<<<<
and many other (easily available) passages, many references, many sources.
Quotations from the Congressional Record. And so on.
you write
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
France might side with the Germans in World War II, but afterwards, De Gaulle
can come in and say that the Vichy French were illegitimate and never
represented France. He, De Gaulle, was therefore free to disallow and take no
responsibility for anything the Vichy government did
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
De Gaulle left France (escaped to England) after leading a successful
counterattack during the Fall of France, and briefly serving in the French
Government prior to Petain -- who sought an armistice with Germany. IOW he was
never anything to do with Vichy France, he always opposed Vichy France. Days
after the Vichy Government was founded he broadcast from London calling on the
French to resist the Nazis. And he and others set up the Free French Forces.
By 1944 he headed an effective government in exile.
<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Etc..
Judy Evans, Cardiff
.
--- On Mon, 25/10/10, Lawrence Helm <lawrencehelm@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
From: Lawrence Helm <lawrencehelm@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [lit-ideas] Rome in 389-386 B.C. -- seeking peace
To: "Lit-Ideas" <Lit-Ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Date: Monday, 25 October, 2010,
18:59http://www.lawrencehelm.com/2010/10/rome-in-389-386-bc-seeking-peace.html Lawrence
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