[lit-ideas] Re: Rome and the Barbarians
- From: Jlsperanza@xxxxxxx
- To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2014 12:35:25 -0400 (EDT)
Oddly, while 'barbarus', as used by the Romans, could mean 'foreigner',
apparently they never used it as applied to the Greeks. It's not something _I_
discovered, other than by learning it from Short/Lewis, Latin dictionary.
It may relate to Walter O's reference to transcendental philosophy and how
the Greeks had their history, too (about which more below). In any case it
helps to maintain relevance for this subject-line!
My last post today!
L. Helm's nice quote from Heather ("the point is, Roman visitors hardly
cared to visit the capital city of their Empire") reminds me of another adage
and inspires me to adapt: "Italy is only a geographical expression".
Ditto with Roma!
""Roma" -- a mere geographical expression."
---- More comments below.
Variant to Heather's observations: "The Roman emperors hardly visited
Rome." Similarly, a Victorian has taken the trouble to check how much time
Queen
Victoria spends in Buckingham. With the season in the Isle of Wight, and
her passion for Balmoral and Sandringham, it is a miracle that London
continues to be the capital of the Empire."
Cfr. re: (a) American empire -- "The decision was made to create a capital
for the [Empire]: Washington", and (b) The Brazilian empire: "Rio was found
to be too touristy: Brasilia, as head of the empire, was founded in its
place."
So, apparently, some Roman emperors spent some time in Constantinopolis,
which Wikipedia has, was called, by the Romans, "Nova Roma" ("Nuova Roma", in
modern Italian -- trust them to diphthongise if they can). Which reminds
me of the Pilgrims. Back in 1640, a few English sailors and others left
England, before the British Empire (was it?) and settled in America, which
they
called "New England". Not happy with this, they founded a city on Long
Island sound which they called "New London". But they never started a 'new'
monarchy! They were fleeing from it!?
In a message dated 4/11/2014 11:17:09 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
lawrencehelm@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx writes: quotes from Heather,
"The Fall of the Roman Empire: a new history of Rome and the Barbarians":
"[T]he point is",
Heather writes,
"that, by the fourth century,
[Roman] emperors hardly visited Rome at all."
--- perhaps it was becoming _too crowded_ for their taste. Plus, they loved
a _villa_ and you cannot have a villa in a city, can you -- but cfr. an
acquaintance of mine's motto: "Rus in urbem". I feel like distinguishing too
between Rome proper and greater Rome: thus we have Palazzo Farnese and
Villa Farnese, where the prefix 'palazzo' versus 'villa' indicates 'city'
versus 'suburbia', as it were. (Of course, 'palazzo', etymologically, is
related
to one and the most important of the seven hills of Rome).
Heather goes on in his new history of the (alleged) fall of the Roman
empire, or, to use his subtitle, "Rome and the barbarians".
"While [Rome] remain[s] the [Roman] Empire's symbolic capital,
and still receive[s] a disproportionate percentage
of imperial revenues in the form of free food and
other subsidies, it was no longer a political
or administrative centre of importance."
I like the reference to 'free food'. Reminds me of the motto, 'bread and
circuses', and always wondered whether these mean emperors never thought of
giving at least BUTTER mixed with mere bread?
Heather continues:
"Especially in the later third and earlier fourth centuries,
new centres of power had developed much closer
to the main imperial frontiers."
"Within Italy, Milan, several days' journey north of Rome, ... emerged
as the main seat of active imperial government."
About which Wikipedia: "Mediolanum o Mediolanium in latino, il cui
significato etimologico sembra potesse essere località in mezzo alla pianura
oppure luogo fra corsi d'acqua."
i.e. "in the middle of the range or prairie" or
"in the middle of the courses of water".
(Geary argues that 'lanium' was a Hellenistic dysphemism, and ventures that
"for all we know, the city may literally mean that it was located, by
Roman views, "in the middle of nowhere" -- Geary, Apocripha). About Milano,
Wikipedia further has:
"Dopo essere stata la più importante città dei Galli Insubri,
Milano fu conquistata nel 222 a.C., in seguito ad un
aspro assedio, dai consoli romani Gneo Cornelio Scipione Calvo e
Marco Claudio Marcello, la conquista fu contrastata dalla discesa
di Annibale al quale la popolazione locale si alleò. Fu solo nei primi
anni del II secolo a.C. che Insubri e Boi si assoggettarono in
modo definitivo alla dominazione romana."
I.e. after being the most important urban centre of the Galli Insubri, it
became a Roman conquest in 222 B. C."
Today, part of the "Italian" season as the opera season opens in a theatre
built on the grounds of a former church of "St. Mary of the Stairs" (La
Scala).
Heather goes on:
"Elsewhere, at different times:
* Trier on the Moselle"
About which -- modern Germany -- the Italian wikipedia has:"Sembra che
"Augusta Treverorum" fu fondata da Augusto nel corso del suo soggiorno in
Gallia nell'anno 16 a.C., nei pressi di un insediamento militare che
sembrerebbe
risalire al 30 a.C. circa." I.e., It seems Augusta Treverorum was founded
by Augustus in 16 B. C. -- "La data esatta non può essere stabilita dalle
fonti storiche del momento, bensì da una serie di circostanze che si
verificarono in quei decenni."
Heather goes on to mention a third centre:
* "Sirmium by the confluence of the Save and the Danube"
In modern Serbia. The Italian wikipedia has: "Numerose spedizioni militari
furono infatti preparate proprio in [Sirmio], spesso utilizzata come
quartier generale. Ciò accadde sotto Marco Aurelio (durante le guerre
marcomanniche), Massimino il Trace[6] e Claudio II (nel 270[7])." I.e. the
date of
the Roman appropriation of the place under Marc'Aurelio.
And Heather adds a fourth centre:
* Nicomedia in Asia Minor", and
Modern Turkey, about which Wikipedia reads: "Nel 64 a.C. Nicomedia divenne
capitale della provincia di Bitinia e Ponto." "Nicomedia fu probabilmente
visitata dall'Imperatore Marc'Aurelio nel corso del suo viaggio in Oriente
del 175-176, a seguito della ribellione di Avidio Cassio e dall'Imperatore
Settimio Severo durante il periodo delle campagne partiche degli anni
197-198." "Vi trascorse l'inverno del 214/215 l'imperatore Caracalla in vista
delle campagne contro i Parti e pochi anni più tardi anche Elagabalo nel
218/219. Ancora potrebbe essere stata visitata dall'Imperatore Gordiano III
durante il periodo delle campagne sasanidi degli anni 242-244."
Heather adds a FIFTH centre:
* Antioch close to the Persian front"
About which Wikipedia: "Nel 64 a.C. Pompeo conquistò la regione d'Antiochia
[Siria] e costituì la provincia romana di Siria."
These, Heather notes,
"had all become important, particularly under Diocletian's Tetrarchy when
the four active emperors had had separate geographical spheres."
-- I like the phrase 'Diocletian's Tetrarchy'. A purist would replace that.
I read from Wiki:
It all starts of course with Diocletian:
who,
"Ottenuto il potere, Diocleziano nominò nel novembre del 285 come suo vice
in qualità di cesare, un valente ufficiale di nome Marco Aurelio Valerio
Massimiano, che pochi mesi più tardi elevò al rango di augusto il 1º aprile
del 286 (chiamato ora Nobilissimus et frater), formando così una diarchia"
So we have, first Diocletian's and Maximian's diarchy.
The next step is not due to Diocletian, but to Maximian:
"Massimiano nominò come suo cesare per l'Occidente, Costanzo Cloro (1º
marzo)."
And yes, the tetrarchy ends up with Diocletian's choice:
"Diocleziano fece lo stesso con Galerio per l'Oriente, a Nicomedia
(probabilmente a maggio)."
"In May of that year, Diocletian names Galerio".
And presto: a tetrarchy: Diocletian's and Maximilian's and Constantius' and
Galerius's tetrarchy -- if you mustn't!
"Diocleziano controllava le province orientali e l'Egitto (capitale:
Nicomedia, e per un certo periodo insieme ad Antiochia)
Galerio le province balcaniche (capitale: Sirmium, più tardi insieme a
Serdica-Felix Romuliana e Tessalonica)
Massimiano governava su Italia, Africa settentrionale e Hispania
(capitale: Mediolanum, insieme ad Aquileia)
Costanzo Cloro ebbe in affidamento la Gallia e la Britannia (capitale:
Augusta Treverorum)."
Note indeed the total absence of Rome! It would be, in modern eyes, as if
the head of the European Union were not be in Bruxelles, but, say, in
Ceylon!?
Questa divisione per area geografica indusse Diocleziano ad autorizzare la
creazione di numerose zecche imperiali decentrate che, insieme alle
tradizionali di Roma e Lugdunum [Lyon], dovevano battere moneta in modo
uniforme,
per la sicurezza economica di tutte le quattro parti dell'Impero ed a
supporto economico di tutte le principali armate che si concentravano lungo i
confini imperiali."
Heather goes on:
"In the fourth century, things stabilized a little:
* Milan and
* Trier in the west,
together with
Antioch and a new capital,
Constantinople, in the east,
About which Wikipedia: "o Nuova Roma (latino: Nova Roma)"
"emerge... as the dominant
administrative and political centres of the [Roman] Empire."
And the rest is the Barbarians --. I think it was Tolkien who has a chapter
on "Saxon versus Celt" -- and perhaps we may need an update of a
bibliography on Roman versus Teuton. I am especially fascinated by the ethnia
(if
that's the word) of Odoacre -- because beyond all Germanic diversity, there
must have been perhaps some unity that said (to them): "German" -- rather
than anything else.
----
Walter O. was wondering if this is philosophically relevant from a
transcendental point of view. Below is a list of philosophers whom we may call
'Roman' (at least they are thus listed in a history of Roman philosophy. Some
are more Roman than others, beware!
How it all started. Well, Helm quotes from Heather as having the Roman
canon at one time comprising at least one philosopher:
VIRGILIO -- CICERONE -- SALLUSTIO -- TERENZIO
adding, again quoting from Heather, that the canon was bound to get
enlarged as you went into tutoring with a 'orator' or rhetor -- and
disqualifying
the fact that if you read CICERONE, you read hundreds of other authors --
he has a thing for name dropping!
In a message dated 4/11/2014 10:27:46 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
_wokshevs@mun.ca_ (mailto:wokshevs@xxxxxx) writes:
Having one foot in Education and the others in Philosophy, I totally agree
with
you, Chris. However, I wouldn't want to conflate on the one hand,
satisfaction
(or not) of empirical conditions of access to and development of knowledge,
abilities and dispositions with, on the other hand, the justifiability
(soundness) of philosophical (i.e., T'l) argument and analysis.)
Sure are a lot of hands and feet swirling 'round here.
So, I should say that I once compiled an "A to Z" of Roman-Empire
philosophers -- below. I try to use the Italian transliteration; since, after
Odocre's days -- that the Italians call the "Medioevo" or "Dark Ages", came the
Renaissance of Classical Antiquity, where all were (or should have been)
re-studied...
Cheers,
Speranza
--- From: Morford, (Ancient) "Roman philosophers" (Routledge) --
"PHILOSOPHERS NAMED IN THE TEXT".
AENESIDEMO.
Academic, founder of a Pyrrhonist revival in Rome.
ANASSAGORA.
Early 5th. cent., pre-Socratic enquirer into the origin of the cosmos.
Discussed by Cicerone.
ANDRONICO.
Mid-first cent. Peripatetic. Editor of works of ARISTOTELE
ANTIOCO.
Early 1st. cent.
Academic who reverted to Plato’s dogmatism.
ANTIPATER
1st. cent.
Stoic, the tutor to Catone Uticense.
APOLLONIDES.
Mid-1st. cent.
Stoic, adviser to Catone Uticense.
APOLLONIO
1st. cent. CE, Neo-pythagorean.
APULEIO
Ca.125–180 CE,
Platonic, author of "Metamorphoses".
ARCESILAO
Md-3rd.cent.
Academic sceptic, head of the New Academy.
ARISTIPPO.
Late-5th. cent.
Member of Socrates’s circle.
ARISTON
3rd. cent.
Peripatetic and head of the Lyceum.
ARISTOTELE
384–322
Funder of the Peripatetic school.
ARISTO
Early 1st. cent.,
Head of the Academy and teacher of Bruto.
ARIO.
1st. cent.
Adviser to Augusto, the first Roman emperor.
ARTEMIDORO.
1st. cent. CE,
Stoic.
Fiend of Plinio the Younger and son-in-law of Musonio.
ATENODORO.
Mid-1st. cent., Stoic.
Adviser to Catone Uticense, in whose Roman palace he lived.
ATHENODORO.
Mid-first cent., Stoic.
Friend of Cicerone.
ATTALO
1st. cent. CE
Stoic.
Teacher of Seneca.
AUGUSTINO
354–430 CE
Neo-platonist.
BION.
ca. 335–245,
Cynic, popular teacher.
BOEZIO
ca. 480–524 CE, philosopher with Stoic and Neoplatonist views.
Author of "The Consolation of Philosophy".
CARNEADE.
Mid-2nd. cent., head of the New Academy,
Sceptic and star of the Athenian embassy to Rome in 155.
CHAEREMON
mid-lst. cent., CE, Stoic, tutor to Nero.
CRISIPPO
ca. 280–206, head of the Stoic school from 232.
CICERONE
106–43, leading transmitter of Hellenistic philosophy to Rome and
Renaissance Europe.
Follower of the New Academy and pupil of Philo of Larissa.
CLEANTE
331–232
Zeno’s successor as head of the Stoic school from 262.
CLITOMACO
late-2nd. cent., Sceptic and pupil of Carneades,
head of the New Academy from 127.
CORNUTO
1st. cent. CE,
Stoic.
Teacher and friend of Persio and Lucano.
CRANTOR
ca. 335–275
Academic, the first commentator on Plato.
CRATE
ca.365–285
Cynic, follower of Diogenes of Sinope and teacher of Zeno of Citium.
CRATIPPO
mid-lst. cent.,
Peripatetic.
Friend of Cicerone and Nigidio and teacher of Cicerone’s son.
CRITOLAO.
first half of 2nd. cent.
Head of the Peripatetic school and member of the Athenian embassy to Rome
in 155.
DEMETRIO
1st. cent. CE
Friend of Seneca.
DEMETRIO
Mid-1st.cent.
Adviser of Catone Uticense.
DEMOCRITO
second half of 5th. cent., pre-Socratic, founder of atomism.
DICHAEARCO
late 4th. cent., Peripatetic, pupil of Aristotle.
DIODOTO.
first of 1st.cent., Stoic.
Teacher and friend of Cicerone, in whose villa he lived.
DIOGENE LAERZIO
first half of 3rd. cent. CE
Author of "The Lives of the Philosophers".
DIOGENE D'APOLLONIA.
2nd half of 5th. cent., pre-Socratic philosopher and enquirer into the
natural world.
A source for Seneca’s "Naturates Quaestiones".
DIOGENE DA BABIBONIA
mid-2nd. cent., head of the Stoic school.
Member of the Athenian embassy to Rome in 155.
Tutor to Panezio.
DIOGENE D'OENOANDA
late 2nd. cent. CE, Epicurean and part-author of the inscription on the
stoa which he caused to be set up in Oenoanda.
DIOGENE DA SINOPE
mid-4th.cent., founder of Cynicism.
ECATO
early 1st. cent., Stoic.
Pupil of Panezio and member of circle of Posidonio.
ERMARCO
1st half of 3rd. cent., pupil of Epicurus and his successor as head of the
Epicurean school from 271, with Epicurus, Metrodorus and Polyaenus, one of
“The Four Men”, founders of the Epicurean school.
EPITTETO
ca. 50–120 CE, Stoic.
Pupil of Musonio.
EPICURO
341–271.
Principal source for Lucrezio’s poem.
EUFRATES
late-lst. cent. CE, Stoic.
Sudent of Musonio and friend of Plinio the Younger.
FAVORINO
ca. 85–155 CE,
philosopher of the Second Sophistic.
Friend of Plutarco and teacher of Frontone.
FEDRO
ca. 140–70, Epicurean, admired by Cicero. head of the Epicurean school in
the last years of his life.
FILONE D'ALEXANDRIA
first half of 1st. cent. CE, philosopher, sympathetic to Stoic ethics and
influential in the later development of Neo-platonism.
FILONE DA LARISSA
ca.159–84, head of the New Academy, 110–88.
The most influential of Cicerone’s tutors.
FILODEMO
ca. 110–40
Epicurean philosopher.
Protegé of Pisone Cesonino.
An influence on Virgilio and Orazio, many of his fragmentary writings are
preserved in the Herculaneum papyri.
GALENO
late-second cent. CE
Physician to Marc'Aurelio. Platonist.
IEROCLE. early 2nd. cent. CE, Stoic.
LELIO
ca. 190–125, consul in 140, friend of Scipio Aemilianus and Panaetius and
called by Cicero "the first Roman philosopher." * LEUCIPPUS. second half of
5th. cent., co-founder with Democritus of atomism. *
LUCREZIO
first half of 1st. cent., Epicurean, author of "De Rerum Natura".
MANILIO
late-lst. cent. BCE and early-lst. cent CE,
Stoic author of "Astronomica".
MARC'AURELIO
121–180 CE,
Roman EMPEROR (161–180) and Stoic, author of "To Himself", a private diary.
MENIPPO
first half of 3rd. cent., Cynic and satirical author in prose and verse on
philosophical subjects.
METRODORO
ca. 331–278, friend of Epicurus and one “The Four Men”, founders of
Epicureanism.
MODERATO
second half of 1st. cent. CE, Neo-pythagorean.
MUSONIUS. second half of 1st. cent. CE,
Roman of Etruscan descent, Stoic.
Teacher of Epitteto.
NIGIDIO
1st. cent., Neo-pythagorean.
PANEZIO
ca. 185–109, Stoic, head of the Stoic school from 129.
Influential at Rome.
Fiend of Scipione Emiliano and major source for Cicerone’s "De Officiis".
PARMENIDE
first half of 5th. cent., pre-Socratic, pioneer enquirer into the nature
of “what is”.
PATRON
first half of 1st. cent., friend of Cicero and successor of Fedro as head
of the Epicurean school.
PLATONE
ca. 429–347, founder of the Academy and disciple and interpreter of
Socrates.
PLOTINO. 205–270 CE, Neo-platonist.
Resident in Rome and Campania.
PLUTARCO
ca. 50–120 CE, Platonist.
POLEMO. died 270, Platonist and head of the Academy from 314.
POLIENO
died before 271, friend of Epicurus and one of “The Four Men” , founders
of Epicureanism.
POSIDONIO
ca. 135–50, Stoic, student of Panaetius and head of his own school in
Rhodes,
where Cicerone heard him.
The dominant figure in middle Stoicism, whose works encompassed the whole
range of intellectual enquiry.
PIRRONE
ca. 365–270, the founder of Scepticism, whose doctrines were revived in
Rome by Enesidemo.
PITAGORA
6th. cent., head of a community at Croton in S. Italy, emphasized the
importance of number and proportion, his doctrines included vegetarianism and
the transmigration of souls, influenced Plato, his philosophy was revived at
Rome by Nigidio and the Sesti.
RUSTICO
consul in 133 and 162 CE, Stoic.
Fiend and teacher of Marc'Aurelio.
SENECA. 4 BCE–65 CE
Stoic, tutor.
Adviser (and victim) of Roman emperor Nerone,
author of philosophical treatises, including "Dialogi" and "Epistulae
Morales".
SEVERO.
consul in 146 CE,
Stoic.
Friend and teacher of Marc'Aurelius, whose son married his daughter.
SESTIO
mid-1st. cent.,
Neo-pythagorean, founder of the only genuinely Roman school of philosophy.
Admired by Seneca for his disciplined Roman ethos.
SESTO EMPIRICO
late-2nd. cent. CE, Sceptic, author of philosophical and medical works and
critic of Stoicism, principal source for Pyrrhonism.
SIRO. 1st. cent., Epicurean, teacher in Campania of Virgil.
SOCRATE
469–399, iconic Athenian philosopher and one of the most influential
figures in Greek philosophy; he wrote nothing but is the central figure in
Plato’
s dialogues.
Admired by non-Academics, including the Stoic Marc'Aurelio nearly six
hundred years after his death.
SOTION
1st. cent. CE, Neopythagorean, teacher of Seneca.
SPEUSIPPO
ca. 407–339, Plato’s successor as head of the Academy.
TELE
second half of 3rd. cent., Cynic, author of diatribes on ethical subjects.
TEOFRASTO
372–287, Peripatetic, successor to Aristotle as head of the Lyceum from
322.
VARRO
116–27, Academic, Roman polymath, author of works on language,
agriculture, history and philosophy, as well as satires, and principal speaker
in the
later version of Cicero’s "Academica".
ZENOCRATE
died 314, head of the Academy from 339.
ZENONE DA CITIO
335–263, founder of Stoicism, originally a follower of the Cynic Crates,
taught at Athens in the Stoa Poikile, which gave its name to his school.
ZENONE DA SIDON
ca. 155–75, head of the Epicurean school at Athens, where he taught
Philodemus and was heard by Cicero.
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