[lit-ideas] Re: Right to Life, Right to Die

From: "Andy Amago" <aamago@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx, lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2005 00:14:56 -0500
Marlena, sorry to have upset you so.  Why do you so fear spelling out the
word God?

Regarding domestic violence, I wonder how people wind up in abusive
situations.   Where do boys learn to be abusers except by being hit and/or
imitating their fathers?  Likewise girls?  Are you suggesting it's just bad
luck to marry the wrong person?   You write: "Blame the victim--oooh, yes. 
If she was abused, it was her fault and  she > deserved to stay there if
she was."  I never said that.  I only asked why  Terry did not see her
family as a haven, a safe place, parents to whom she could turn when
someone was doing something as horrendous as beating her.  Why is that?  If
she had a victim mentality, where did she get it?  And yes, please do
elaborate what happens to family members when someone is abused.  The old
saying is a friend in need is a friend indeed, correct?  I would assume
this would apply to families unless the family isn't worth the name family,
and many aren't.

Regarding Michael, how evil is this man that he has managed to keep all
this information from the courts for over ten years?  Or are you saying the
Schindlers' lawyer is ineffective?  Then why didn't they get a better
lawyer?  What court would refuse to allow a vegetative patient to be taken
outside by her parents?

Regarding your little lecture, yes, eating disorders are behaviors that
children adopt to help them cope with problems.  It was up to Terry as an
adult to unlearn what she learned growing up in her family.  Maybe Terry's
family should take some responsibility for her needing to have to unlearn
it.  Regarding being poor, people are poor for many reasons.  Kindly give
me evidence of when and where I blamed someone for being poor.  Regarding
your friend's quote, is she a party to the action?  Was she asked to give
testimony?  If not, it's hearsay, irrelevant.  And if she had evidence, why
didn't she step forward with it?  

All in all, I am not convinced that Michael is a monster and the Schindlers
are his victims.  Rather, the Schindlers  did a lousy parenting job and are
now obsessing about her, which is to say, still not caring about her.


Andy Amago





> [Original Message]
> From: <Eternitytime1@xxxxxxx>
> To: <lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Date: 3/27/2005 8:15:39 PM
> Subject: [lit-ideas] Re: Right to Life, Right to Die
>
>  
> In a message dated 3/27/2005 8:29:01 AM Central Standard Time,  
> aamago@xxxxxxxxxxxxx writes:
> The  bottom
> line is, her parents got parental urges long after Terry needed  them. 
>
>
> Dear Andy,
> And you say that I have preconceived notions?  How about the thought 
that 
> they were so worried about her that when Michael decided to move her to 
Florida 
> that they shortly followed in order to be able to see her?   (one of the 
> hallmarks of domestic violence is isolating people from those  you love
and who 
> love you--whether emotionally [the only reason they like  'us' is because
of 
> me--you are so stupid/ugly/whatever that it is a good  thing that I am in
your 
> life/she does not want to see you any longer/etc.]  or physically).    
>  
> I'm not saying that there was abuse or not--but you are definitely
writing  
> as though you believe that someone who ends up within a domestic violence

> situation (and men do as well as women, you know) -- that they 'deserve'
it  
> because she/he was hoodwinked into marriage and then unable to return to
her  
> parents if a shelter was 'beneath' her?   I do not think  you  know a
thing about 
> domestic violence and what happens to someone in that sort of  situation,
do 
> you?  And, this has absolutely nothing to do with whether or  not I was a
former 
> member of the 'religious right', btw.  On *average* it  takes about seven 
> times for a woman (maybe men too--that I do not know--and  Carol can tell
me if 
> the statistics have changed...) to actually complete the  leaving
process.  
>  
> You have absolutely no idea what courage it takes, after years of abuse,
to  
> be able to even contemplate leaving.  And, MOST women do not even know 
where 
> to go for help--and even those who would and are trying to help them do 
not 
> have any idea as to go for help.  And, that is if they are able to 
figure out 
> what, exactly, is "wrong".
>  
> I do not think you have any idea what happens to family members when a  
> member of their family is involved with someone who is abusive (esp if
they do  not 
> know and then find out--just see the changes in the one they love...and
what  
> if Terri was so Catholic that divorce was not really an option for
her--and 
> the  parents wanted her to do so [mine did me but I was trapped by my 
> 'vow'...so I do  know a little what it is like to be trapped...])...Do
you?  
>  
> I cannot imagine not being able to be in the room with my child when he
was  
> dying.  I simply cannot.  I do not think that has anything to do with  
> 'adjudging' Michael.  I admit it is really hard hard hard to simply 
evaluate his 
> behavior and be SO thankful and  hopeful--thankful  that  my child will
never 
> ever be like that to someone's parents and hopeful that I  will not have
to deal 
> with someone like him as a wife for my  child.  If he did not see her as 
> having any sort of life and  feeling--then what would it have hurt to
have let them 
> try??  I simply do  not understand.  If it is not going to hurt her and
may 
> not even help  her--but would help THEM and they are her parents--then
why not? 
>   I  do not understand.  And, keeping them from their daughter (and I do
not  
> believe you EVER stop being a parent--ever--though you may try to allow
for  
> healthy boundaries which is what I think they did...and how dare YOU
judge 
> what  sort of parents they were because she had an eating disorder!  Is
every  
> problem a child has because of bad parenting?  None of us are here to
learn  and 
> to grow on our own?  
>  
> If saying that Michael's behavior smacks of power-control issues--and
that  
> he is not healthy in how he acts when he has that power or this would not
be  
> what happens:
>  
> I got this from my sweet dear friend who is an "aging activist" (and not
a  
> member of the 'Religious Right' by any stretch of the imagination...)
>  
> "I understand the husband occasionally lets them "visit" for short
periods  
> but they ofter go 10-12 hours without being able to see her.  There is a  
> policeman at the door and someone in the room whenever they are there to
assure  
> she gets no liquid from them.  Sad case that certainly makes the case for

> Assisted Suicide.  I assume you are aware that Oregon has such a law as
do  a 
> number of countries in Europe...i.e. Denmark, Holland, Sweden.  Some say 
its 
> really devastating the population in Holland...and many comparisons are 
being made 
> to Hitler's destruction of those mentally or physically  handicapped. 
The 
> cost to the state is a burden.
>
> Glad the hospice is  attempting to keep her comfortable.  That, indeed is 
> palliative care, but  normally they would try to spoon feed or give a
little 
> water as part of  palliative care - but the judge denied that."
> "
>  
> I apologize for being so cross in tone and words--but to blame any woman 
for 
> domestic violence is coming too close to home to me and for me.  I will 
end 
> up saying things that I would prefer not to say.  
>  
> Blame the victim--oooh, yes.  If she was abused, it was her fault and 
she 
> deserved to stay there if she was.  THAT sounds more like a 'religious  
> right'/neo-conservative sort of thing to say than anything that *I* would
EVER  say.  
> (They are poor because they had bad parents and if they stay poor  that
is 
> because they deserve it because if they didn't, they would find a way 
out...)
>  
> and I do try to assist people in not being EITHER the victims or the  
> victimizers--but to look for that third option.  
>  
> <deep breath[s]>  and <mental refocusing to find the  'good'>
>  
> Will you give me permission to forward that part of your post which both  
> connects me with the "religious right" and also invalidates pretty much
ANYTHING  
> that I might ever ever say?  I can think of people who have invalidated  
> pretty much ANYTHING that I might ever ever say by calling me part of the

> opposite(s) of the "relgious right".  
>  
> Obviously not part of any group and thoughts and words invalidated by 
almost 
> everyone,
> Marlena in Missouri
> [glad to have gone exploring today and having a sweet day today before  
> reading this post]
>  
>  
>
>
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[lit-ideas] Re: Right to Life, Right to Die

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