[lit-ideas] Re: Right to Life, Right to Die

From: "Veronica Caley" <vcaley@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Date: Sat, 26 Mar 2005 00:09:52 -0500
Andy: I think the
Schindlers don't care about their daughter. They care about themselves and
how they will feel when she's gone. Maybe they'll have to look at their
marriage, find something else to do. Not so easy to do. If they cared
about her, they'd let her go. We have to be careful not to project our own
causes onto cases like this. 

I think they care about their daughter very much.  But it has gone way
beyond that.
Your other points are very well taken.  Still, I regret that the siblings
will think that the courts murdered their kin.

About two years or so ago, someone asked if anyone had read Norman O.
Brown's book,
something having to do with death, the title I think was, "Life Against
Death."  I had read the book but didn't answer because it had been a long
time ago and I thought I didn't remember much of it.  But now, I think I
remember that the thesis was the concept of 'causa sui' or the idea that we
all latch on to something to divert ourselves from the inevitability of our
own death that is to come.  I think maybe this might be what is going on in
this family.  I sort of suspect that their entire lives have revolved
around Terri and how to keep her alive while they wait for her to wake up.
(apologies for not underlining foreign phrase.  That function is not
working on my e-mail.

Andy:A.A. Guidelines need to be established. Not rules, guidelines.
Regarding
rationing of expensive healthcare, it's not rationed by IQ, it's rationed
by ability to pay. Terry got more healthcare services to date than just
about anyone.

Yes. Absolutely.

Veronica




> [Original Message]
> From: Andy Amago <aamago@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> To: <lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>; <lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Date: 3/25/2005 1:05:39 PM
> Subject: [lit-ideas] Re: Right to Life, Right to Die
>
> > [Original Message]
> > From: Carol Kirschenbaum <carolkir@xxxxxxxx>
> > To: <lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > Date: 3/25/2005 12:31:33 PM
> > Subject: [lit-ideas] Re: Right to Life, Right to Die
> >
>
> >
> > But as you say, society believes it should have a say in all this 
> > technology. However, I doubt that a feeding tube is a very costly piece
> of 
> > technology.
> >
>
> A.A. Not sure I agree about "society".  Law by the majority is known as
mob
> rule.  We need courts and judges to make these decisions, however
> imperfectly they do it.  Witihout law, there is no society.
>
>
>
> C.K. > A couple of points in the Schiavo case:
> > Terri has been swallowing her own saliva, according to medical reports.
> (She 
> > doesn't drool.) Swallowing reflex can be increased, with training.
Terri 
> > didn't have such training, and the courts refused it. Please note: The 
> > courts are not medical experts, nor are lawyers trained in interpreting 
> > medical information. 
>
>
> A.A. Lawyers hire experts.  Experts are an industry unto themeselves.  For
> every expert who says it's A and only A, another will say it's B and only
> B.  The more persuasive one will prevail.
>
>
>
> Carol: The courts that have ruled in favor of Michael Shiavo 
> > have looked specifically--and almost solely--at the rights and
> obligations 
> > of a legal guardian. Charges of abuse remained just that--informal
> charges 
> > to nobody. The documents backing up the family's accusations are part of
> the 
> > Schindler family's records. Michael Schiavo has not been brought up on 
> > domestic violence charges. Btw, Veronica, I'm currently working as a 
> > counselor at a shelter for battered women, so don't lecture me.
> >
>
>
> A.A. As hard as the Schindlers fought, one would think they would have
> exploited this aspect if there was anything in it.  Personally, I think
the
> Schindlers don't care about their daughter.  They care about themselves
and
> how they will feel when she's gone.  Maybe they'll have to look at their
> marriage, find something else to do.  Not so easy to do.   If they cared
> about her, they'd let her go.  We have to be careful not to project our
own
> causes onto cases like this.  
>
>
>
> Carol: > You may not know that people have become fully conscious years
> after being 
> > in PVS and minimally-conscious states. Just a couple of weeks ago I
> attended 
> > a lecture on this by the physician who runs the local "vegetable patch" 
> > here--a coma unit. You'd think it'd be a quiet place. Not with this
> doctor. 
> > He believes in stimulating his comatose and near-comatose patients to
the 
> > max--anything to wake them up, including flavoring the liquid in their 
> > feeding tubes. (What, it's gonna hurt?) His point is, you've gotta try
to
> DO 
> > something with these folks or you might as well put them all to sleep 
> > permanently--which he has no intention of doing. So his ward is anything
> but 
> > quiet. Radios, TV, massages, vibrators, varying lights, families reading
> and 
> > picnicking...you wouldn't believe it. This ward has an extraordinary
> record 
> > of wake-ups, compared to others of its ilk.
> >
>
>
> A.A. He can stimulate away.  Doesn't mean they can hear it.  
>
>
>
> > And for 15 years, Terri Schiavo has been locked in solitary
confinement, 
> > with infrequent, monitored visits from her parents. No outdoors, nobody 
> > talking next to her or around her. Radio tuned to the same station for 
> > years...It's enough to make someone feel brain dead.
> >
>
>
> A..A Does not compute.  Her parents couldn't take her outdoors?  Couldn't
> change the radio station?  Couldn't fight for more services?  Something
> doesn't add up here.
>
>
>
>
> > But I'm curious: Would you deny feeding tubes in all cases of minimal 
> > consciousness? Would you allow a feeding tube for a certain number of
> weeks? 
> > Months? Years? Never? You've probably read or heard about people being
> fully 
> > conscious but "locked-in"--the Poe terror. 
>
>
>
> A.A. Try the movie The Awakenings (1990).  It's a true story.  Exactly on
> this topic.
>
>
>
>
> This can continue for a long 
> > while, for years, if nobody's watching that patient very carefully for
> signs 
> > of alertness. Stinting on the feeding tube would kill them off. Is that
> okay 
> > in the rationing hierarchy? Should expensive healthcare be reserved for 
> > people above a certain IQ level--and withheld for, say, people with
> mental 
> > retardation living in institutions?  Just curious. Very curious.
> > Carol
> >
> >
> >
>
> A.A. Guidelines need to be established.  Not rules, guidelines.  Regarding
> rationing of expensive healthcare, it's not rationed by IQ, it's rationed
> by ability to pay.  Terry got more healthcare services to date than just
> about anyone.
>
>
> Andy Amago
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------
> To change your Lit-Ideas settings (subscribe/unsub, vacation on/off,
> digest on/off), visit www.andreas.com/faq-lit-ideas.html


------------------------------------------------------------------
To change your Lit-Ideas settings (subscribe/unsub, vacation on/off,
digest on/off), visit www.andreas.com/faq-lit-ideas.html
[lit-ideas] Re: Right to Life, Right to Die

Other related posts:
