Peter Junger wrote: "'Rights language' can be quite confusing, but one thing is clear: rights can be legal---a grant of a right from a government---but they can also be moral." I hope I didn't suggest they weren't. In fact, I am not sure if there are laws that aren't of a moral nature. "Most political conservatives who have bothered to think about the matter would insist that property rights are the most natural of rights." They would be wrong. I cannot insist that the government of Canada or the UN give me property of my own because I have a right to property. And if I cannot insist that certain property is my own by virtue of that right, I don't know what the right could mean. Of course, there is the right to purchase property but that is by virtue of government, not a natural right. "If, on the other hand, you are claiming that the only natural rights are those that exist in a Hobbesian state of nature, then you are denying that there are any natural rights." No, I fashion my understanding of natural rights from Aquinas, rather than Hobbes. But I am not sure why you deny natural rights in a Hobbesian state of nature. For Hobbes, it is the concession of some of those rights that are needed for the formation of government. How could Hobbes call for the concession of something that doesn't exist? Sincerely, Phil Enns Toronto, ON ------------------------------------------------------------------ To change your Lit-Ideas settings (subscribe/unsub, vacation on/off, digest on/off), visit www.andreas.com/faq-lit-ideas.html