[lit-ideas] Re: Richard Rorty, Nietzsche and Jungian Darwinism

  • From: "Lawrence Helm" <lawrencehelm@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • To: <lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • Date: Thu, 31 Dec 2009 10:04:34 -0800

Mike, 

The second sentence in my "Comment" reads "Jung hypothesized a sort of
"Oversoul" for each species."  The Oversoul isn't God - although man seems
to want to worship something and in the absence of God he has turned to
superstitions of various kinds; so he may have wanted to worship the
Oversoul if Jung's ideas had caught on, but I don't think they did.  The
Oversoul for Homo Sapiens would presumably be more sophisticated than the
Oversouls for the other species because it was, if I recall correctly, a
projection of a given species - like the Mandala in his book on Flying
Saucers.

A better objection than any of those you voiced is "if each species has an
Oversoul to protect it, why have some species become extinct?  And since I
read Jung about 40 years ago I can't recall how Jung would have answered
that objection.

As to there not having been enough time to account for species through the
pure randomness of natural selection.  I believe that is generally accepted
by anthropologists today.  To compensate, Anthropologists have proposed the
idea of periodic "jumps" caused, they argue, by such things as climate
change and climate shifts.  They find long periods of time with little
change to the fossils; then there is some sort of geologic change.  They
find an anomalous layer of sediment and after that the species are changed.

And yes, another planet or better yet planets to pollute if that is an
unalterable characteristic of our species.  Shall we instead commit species
suicide because we pollute?  As soon as man gave up his hunter-gatherer
existence and settled in little villages, he began to pollute.  Actually he
polluted earlier but sort of randomly over the countryside.  But if he was
staying mostly in his village then the pollution had to be nearby.
Archeologists love his pollutions.  They find bones of the animals he
killed, arrow and spear points and even the occasional evidence of murder.  

To suggest that we shouldn't hope for the continuation of our species
because it doesn't behave as we think it should strikes me as rather
unpragmatic and shortsighted and perhaps lemming-like.

Anti-technology was a strong element in Heidegger's philosophy.  He was
perhaps a semi-Luddite.  Most nations he thought couldn't handle technology
and were better off without it.  Only the Germans, he thought, were capable
of handling technology in the proper spiritual way.  Also, there is a strong
Luddite element in the Environmental camp, e.g., you want to progress
through here?  You will destroy the Spotted Owl if you do and the
preservation of the Spotted Owl is more important than your "progress."  You
say jobs will be lost?  Tough!  Better to lose your jobs than destroy one
species.  

As to war, that too seems to be a characteristic of our species and good
justification for spreading human kind over "Twelve Colonies" (in BSG
thinking) rather than grouping them together on just one planet.   As to
fearing a powerful nation, well yes, humans have always done that.  Rome's
neighbors feared Rome, but Rome feared the Barbarians.  That in itself isn't
a criticism of Rome or the Barbarians, it is merely the way we humans relate
to each other.

Lawrence

From: lit-ideas-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:lit-ideas-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
On Behalf Of Mike Geary
Sent: Thursday, December 31, 2009 8:02 AM
To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [lit-ideas] Re: Richard Rorty, Nietzsche and Jungian Darwinism

LH:
>>The Oversoul manipulates the general or collective actions of the
individuals of a given species for its own good.  It takes responsibility
for a specie's "survival strategy".... the Oversoul involves intentionality.
<<
 
So you're bringing God back into the picture just when we thought we'd
gotten rid of him, eh?  Even Heidegger didn't blame God for this mess and he
was strict RC with German stridency.  You're an incorrigible Romantic,
Lawrence.  But a complex one, what with your love of no-nonsense Sparta.
You write: 
 
>>Jung's thesis would answer one of the objections to Darwinism, namely that
there hasn't been enough time since life began on earth to account for the
development of species with the randomness that Natural Selection
involves.<<
 
I've never come across that objection.  Four billion years hasn't been
enough time?  What did the Oversoul do to speed up the process?  Splice
genes?  Something that ten thousand biology labs are doing today?  Why the
hell didn't he (or she) just splice up humans 4 million years ago?  Ones
already wearing lab coats.  We could be on our way to Planet
Newplacetopollute right now.  It is a long ride, you know.  Forget the
Oversoul, Lawrence, except on Sunday.  
 
 
 >> those who see the Earth as all there is want to take us in a Luddite
direction: get rid of the machines.  Get rid of Technology, and we can
perhaps learn to bring ourselves back into harmony with nature. <<
 
Well, yes, as you mentioned, there's Ted Kaczynski.  And the other one??  I
forget his name.  I think he's still on the loose, isn't he?  Technological
World, take heed, a Luddite is out to get you.  Oh, and yes, let's not
forget those damn Amish.  They're a clear and present danger to our
technological world.  How will we ever get off this planet with them
refusing to drive a car.  Heidegger wasn't opposed to technology per se, he
just didn't like what it does to the position of the Catholic Church.
Technology makes us forget God by finding some other cause for this and that
and we forget the Bingo of being there.  I don't know it means either.    
 
 
>>The Germans, some of them, seem to be worried about us.<< 
 
Yes, and some French and some Russians and some Canadians and some Mexicans
and some Danes and some Swedes and some Italians and some Indonesians and
some Venezuelans and some Israelis and some Jordanians and some Iranians and
some Egyptians and some Syrians and some Texans and even some Argentines.
So what's your point?  Ah!  Here it is: "If there is a Jungian Oversoul,
thinking logically from the Jungian assumption, it might well be stirring
things up to hasten our departure from earth."
 
So, God is fomenting all this discord just so we'll get our shit together
and get the hell out of Dodge before he/she starts  raining fire down on it.
Damn him/her!  Always with the destruction.  First the flooding, then the
fires, then the locusts and frogs and rivers of blood.  He/she is a very
dramatic God, I must say.  Some anger management issues though.
 
But your main point is, and I agree with you, we've got to stop the
Luddites.  Kill them if necessary.  It's shouldn't be so difficult, they
only have their bare hands to fight with -- at least the true ones.
Kaczinski was a phony Luddite using technology to fight technology.  Not
just phony, but unfair.  No more Neville Chamberlainism, from here on out
it's war, war, war.  Level those goddamn mountains in Pakistan and
Afghanistan.  We've got the technology.  Won't take but a sec.  Then let's
get busy making that rocket ship take'll us another solar system.  One with
an eternal. 
 
I can hardly wait to move into my new home on Planet Newplacetopollute.
I'll buy a fixer-upper and sell it for ten times what I paid.  My career has
just begun.  More plastic over here!
 
Mike Geary
obeying the Oversoul 
of Memphis

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