[lit-ideas] Re: Religious folk and Katrina

  • From: "Andy Amago" <aamago@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx, lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
  • Date: Fri, 2 Sep 2005 09:14:44 -0400

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From: 
To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: 9/2/2005 1:31:09 AM 
Subject: [lit-ideas] Re: Religious folk and Katrina


In a message dated 9/1/2005 8:37:02 P.M. Central Daylight Time, 
aamago@xxxxxxxxxxxxx writes:
A.A. Marlena, you've done a good job as G-d's representative on this list.  
But, He doesn't care and you're not going to convince no matter what you say.  
Besides, Milton already justified God's ways to man, so you don't have to. 
Dear Andy,
I didn't think you had asked to be convinced as to whether or not G-d cared. 
Certainly, the LAST thing I am about is to 'convince' or sway ANYONE to any 
particular point of view--


A.A. I only meant don't sweat it.  



Marlena:  In fact, since we, ourselves, are constantly changing--inside and 
out--I'm not sure that even when we share to or with another something 
intricate-that it is necessarily the same thing that we will believe in the 
next few moments.


A.A. I'm not sure I agree.  Most people's belief systems are unshakeable.  Most 
never question anything, least of all their conviction in God.  



Marlena:  He also mentioned that asking questions is very important to 
them...and, truly, I knew more people there than I would have thought.  If you 
ever are inclined to belong to a community of faith, Andy, you ought to go 
visit them ... and as lots of them do NOT believe in G-d, higher power, or much 
of anything except maybe science--you'd probably have a good time.  I'm not as 
much 'in your face' with the questions as they are and they are, supposedly, 
because to them the asking of the questions is as fun as finding the 
answers--more of the 'life is a process/journey/that sort of thing.  I'm not 
into the process or the journey. I'm into the destination. I'd rather sit by 
the tree and look at the waterfall than actually travel TO the waterfall...


A.A.  Sounds encouraging.  Are you metaphorically not into the journey, or 
literally?  Your example is literal.  The expression is metaphorical, sort of 
permission to relax and enjoy life because there really is no destination 
except death except whatever destination we impose on ourselves.  As I 
understand it anyway.  



Marlena:  MOST of the people assisting and helping are faith-based.  


A.A.  Most people are faith-based.  Most, as in 94% in this country, according 
to Newsweek.  Therefore, most of the people assisting and helping are 
faith-based.  



Marlena:  Now, maybe you could argue that they would do so anyway--even if they 
were not 'faith-based'--for many perhaps are faith-based because the people 
need to be able to say that their desire to assist comes from 'somewhere' and 
they cannot accept that maybe they are simply really nice and helpful people.  



A.A.  Why does the impulse to help have to come from somewhere?  Why can't 
people just do something because it's the right thing to do, the good feeling 
thing to do?  Instead, they do it because God wants them to.  You're not 
raising my already low opinion of the human race, Marlena.




Marlena:  In fact, these [religiously based charity] organizations were in 
touch with each other and dividing up what each would do IF something bad 
happened BEFORE the hurricane happened.  

Truly, they make me wish THEY had been in charge of FEMA...<sigh>  



A.A. That's exactly Bush's sentiment.  He meant to do away with government 
sponsored disaster relief, from SS all the way up through natural disasters.  
He got his wish.   We'll see how good charities are with rebuilding 
infrastructure.  Did you read John's post about Bush and FEMA?



Marlena:  One interesting point of view which, I think, is a better description 
of what the 'traditional' Christian believes in terms of 'why this' is 
explained in this open letter to the Baptist world...

What SOME of the more conservative-leaning Christians believe (which is not 
what ALL believe--and not what a liberal leaning Christian might believe--esp 
not the ones I know) is that after Adam and Eve got kicked out of the Garden of 
Eden (ie The Fall), the "world" was not ever the same--and that the scriptures 
which talk about how "all creation groans" is because it wants things to go 
back to what it was supposed to be like...  

MY viewpoint is NOT this one.  But, it would seem to be a fairly clear 
representation of what the 'word on the street' would be with the primarily 
'red' version of the fundamentalist or conservative type [Catholics may have 
their own reasons--and many of them are 'red' too...)

Signing off as a Blue in Red Land and wishing she and her son had joined the 
Civil Air Patrol instead of the Boy Scouts so that she could be down there 
helping right now...


A.A.  Excerpting from the below:  "We know, however, that at its root this 
natural disaster isn't natural at all. It is a creation crying out, "Adam, 
where are you?"  ...  My hometown isn't there anymore. But, then again, it 
never really was. The hope after Katrina is not for civil defense and 
architectural rebuilding. It is for Biloxi, Miss., and all of the created 
universe, to be redeemed and restored in Christ.  There will come a day when 
the curse is reversed, and the Gulf Coast along with the entire cosmos fully 
reflects the glory of a resurrected Messiah."


We used to a modern superpower.  Now we could be any third world country, 
standing on the banks of the flood, waiting for God to help us out.  Yes, the 
power of faith.


Andy Amago




Marlena in Missouri

FIRST-PERSON: Christ, 
Katrina, and my hometown 
By Russell D. Moore 

LOUISVILLE, Ky. (BP)--In a very real sense, my hometown no longer exists. And I 
watched it all on
CNN. 

I am from Biloxi, Miss. My family members are there now, enduring the aftermath 
of Hurricane Katrina despite pleas to evacuate. The house I grew up in is a 
complete catastrophe, but at least it was not completely swept away. And as I 
spend most of the night praying and flipping from CNN to FOX News to MSNBC, I 
am reminded of how unnatural
natural disasters really are.  

The news reports, both nationally televised and through the south Mississippi 
grapevine, sound almost like a bad apocalyptic novel. Beauvoir, the Biloxi home 
of Confederate President Jefferson Davis, was destroyed. This old Coast 
landmark had stood since 1854. The home of my friend and former boss, U.S. Rep. 
Gene Taylor, was destroyed and
washed away. He and his wife, Margaret, have lost everything. The mausoleums in 
some of the graveyards are said to have opened, with coffins and bodies 
floating down the streets. I watch the news reports, watching the place where I 
proposed to my wife, the place where I surrendered to ministry, the place where 
I ran down the beaches with my brothers, and all of it is gone. 

As Christians we know something about Katrina that the rest of the world just 
can?t know: This is not the way it is meant to be.  

The Psalmist reminds us that God originally put all things under the feet of 
Adam (Psalm 8:6). But the writer of Hebrews reminds us that we do not yet see 
all things under the feet of humanity (Hebrews 2:8), although we do see a 
crucified and
resurrected Jesus (Hebrews 2:9). The apostle Paul likewise reminds us that the 
creation itself groans under the reign of sin and death, waiting for its 
rightful rulers to assume their thrones in the resurrection (Romans 8:20-23). 
The storms and
the waves are one more reminder that the "already" has not yet been replaced by 
the "not yet."

Against the backdrop of the hurricane, consider the contrast between the 
prophet Jonah and the Messiah Jesus. Like Jonah, Jesus is confronted by a 
seemingly murderous storm, with his fellow travelers convinced they would 
perish. Whereas Jonah the sinner could only still the storm by throwing himself 
into its midst, Jesus exercises dominion over the winds and the waves with his 
voice. Mark reminds us that the boat's occupants remarked: "Who then is this, 
that even wind and sea obey him?" (Mark 4:41). 

The CNN meteorologists can explain the hurricane only in terms of barometric 
pressure and water temperatures. We know, however, that at its root this 
natural disaster isn't natural at all. It is a creation crying out, "Adam, 
where are you?" 

My hometown isn't there anymore. But, then again, it never really was. The hope 
after Katrina is not for civil defense and architectural rebuilding. It is for 
Biloxi, Miss., and all of the created universe, to be redeemed and restored in 
Christ.
There will come a day when the curse is reversed, and the Gulf Coast along with 
the entire cosmos fully reflects the glory of a resurrected Messiah.

And John sees in his vision that, on that day, "the sea was no more" 
(Revelation 21:1). He also sees that in the Holy City, "nothing unclean will 
ever enter it" (Revelation 21:27). That includes the curse of Eden and all of 
its children: including a hurricane named Katrina. On that day, and not until 
then, nothing will ever threaten the New Jerusalem, our hometown. --
--
Russell D. Moore is dean of the School of Theology and senior vice president 
for academic administration at Southern Baptist Theological Seminary. 

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