[lit-ideas] Re: Rationality: Popper vs. Grice

  • From: "" <dmarc-noreply@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> (Redacted sender "Jlsperanza@xxxxxxx" for DMARC)
  • To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
  • Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2015 08:55:30 -0500

Is Rationality self-justifying?

How pancritical can one be?
Is being a pancritical rationalist being what Grice has as being "enough of 
 a rationalist"?
Was Popper's happy with pancritical rationalism?
The naming of cats, and editing, can be a difficult matter. It isn't just  
one of your holiday games.
Bartley did a lot of editing of Popper's papers. Similarly, Warner edited  
Grice's "Aspects of reason and reasoning" as "Aspects of Reason" for 
Warner spent HOURS with Grice, and oddly, Warner was crucial in Grice's  
SECOND book ("The conception of value") and not just the third ("Aspects of  
reason"). Warner would visit Grice at his house on the Berkeley hills, and  
spend, literally, HOURS with him.
He later decoded Grice's handwritten notes into a legible document that was 
 published by Clarendon.

Warner makes the occasional brilliant footnote, as when he notes that  this 
or that idiom Grice borrowed (but as I say, 'never returned') from this or  
that author. Grice had a way of words, and Warner knew it.
Warner also explains that the last lecture (on Happiness, now in "Aspects  
of reason") was not delivered at Stanford Kant lectures nor at Oxford Locke  
lectures, but since Grice loved that paper, and there IS a reference to  
'eudaimonia' in Kant's idea of the maxims and the imperatives, Warner thought 
it  a very good idea (I agree) to include it in the Clarendon "Aspects of 
In fact, Warner's contribution to "Philosophical Grounds of Rationality:  
Intentions, Categories, Ends", is an expansion on the Aristotelian basis for  
Grice's idea of happiness, and Warner has further original work on the 
matter  (He was a graduate student with Grice at UC/Berkeley).
On the other hand, there's W. W. Bartley, III, and Sir Karl Raimund  Popper.
In a message dated 2/11/2015 2:04:38 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,  
donalmcevoyuk@xxxxxxxxxxx writes:
When I asked for sources I was hoping for  something more specific by way 
of reply than "writings". What specific  "writings"? And what source says 
Bartley added "passages" to Popper's work in  his editorial role (as opposed to 
adding footnotes etc. that are clearly marked  as Bartley's own editorial)?"
Despite the restored friendship, W. W. Bartley, III's view was never  
accepted by Sir Karl Raimund Popper, who criticised it even after W. W. 
III's death. 
1. M. Artigas: The Ethical Nature of Karl Popper's Theory of Knowledge  
(1999), First Part. 
2. Kiichi Tachibana: Mails exchanged between Prof. Tachibana and Prof.  
Agassi On the Kyoto Prize Workshop. Popper Letters 5:1 (November 17, 1992)
Both parts of Popper's "Realism and the Aim of Science", that W. W.  
Bartley, III, edited, and the "Addendum" to the fourth edition of "The Open  
Society and Its Enemies" contain passages that are commonly interpreted as  
Popper's acceptance of Bartley's views. 
However, M. Artigas holds that these were in fact written by Bartley  
1. Mariano Artigas: The Ethical Nature of Karl Popper's Theory of Knowledge 
 (1999), pp. 23–25, and p. 96. 
D. Sepety, "Critical Rationalism, Comprehensiveness and Extra-rational  
"In a new, fourth edition of The Open Society and Its Enemies (the book  
where he first introduced the conception of CR) Popper made only very slight  
corrections to some formulations in chapter 24 (which was the target of  
Bartley’s criticism). At the same time, he added an Addendum which is very  “
Bartleyan”. The footnote on its starting page says: “I am deeply indebted to 
 Dr. William W. Bartley’s incisive criticism which not only helped me to 
improve  chapter 24 of this book (especially page 231) but also induced me to 
make  important changes in the present Addendum.” (Popper 1977, 399)."
M. Artigas, The Ethical Roots of Karl Popper's Epistemology.
"[S]omeone could ask whether Popper changed his mind or not during the long 
 period that elapsed after the 1962 edition of The Open Society. Probably, 
the  most important allusion to this subject is contained in several pages 
of volume  I of Popper's Postscript, edited by Bartley himself. These pages 
were partly  rewritten, as Popper tells us, in 1979 (87), and some people 
think that they  contain Popper's appropriation of Bartley's views. The pages 
just mentioned  contain a discussion of Popper's anti-justificationist 
philosophy in dialogue  with Bartley, and we can read in them several positive 
judgments of Bartley's  comments and a sharp negation of the relevance of 
belief in the following terms:  "Now like E. M. Forster I do not believe in 
belief: I am not interested in a  philosophy of belief, and I do not believe 
beliefs and their justification,  or foundation, or rationality, are the 
subject-matter of the theory of  knowledge" (88). Should we expect something 
else in order to interpret  definitively Popper's rationalism in a Bartleyan 

Artigas: "Some people think that [these pages] contain Popper's  
appropriation of [W. W.] Bartley [,III]'s views.
Which seems to implicate: "Some people, such as myself,..."
Again, same link: Artigas quotes from Popper:
"There also was an attempt to replace my critical rationalism by a more  
radically critical and more explicitly defined position. But because this  
attempt bore the character of a definition, it led to endless philosophical  
arguments about its adequacy" (89)."
and comments:

"It is most difficult to interpret this last comment, although it does  not 
contain an explicit reference to [W. W.] Bartley [, III] (who by that  time 
was already dead), except as a denial of [W. W.] Bartley[, III]'s  
Cfr. Artigas referring to another publication by Popper:
"[O]n page 18 note 1, Popper refers to two of Barley's publications,  
*Bartley* [emphasis mine] adds a third reference, and Popper notes: «The 
section was partly rewritten in 1979».
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