[lit-ideas] Re: Priorities

  • From: "Steven G. Cameron" <stevecam@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
  • Date: Sun, 02 Jan 2005 13:48:51 -0500

**Might this then (currently) qualify as a war of "attrition"??

TC,

/Steve Cameron, NJ


Lawrence Helm wrote:

> Gad!  I remember in my younger days people told me I was so argumentative,
> I'd argue with a tree stump.  When I argue with Andy, I recall those days
> :-(
> 
> The operative word, Andy is "middle."  There was a major war in Iraq but the
> war-part is over.  We are not in the MIDDLE of it any longer.  What is going
> on is an insurgent reaction AFTER the war.  Think of the French insurgency
> after the Germans defeated the French in WWII (I'm sure you can look that
> up).  There had been a war against the French.  It was over.  The French
> were defeated, but French resistance (insurgency) fought on.  Think also of
> the French war against Germany as a subset of the larger war called World
> War II.  The Iraqi war along with the Afghan War are subsets of the War
> against Terror.
> 
> The Left-Leaning media is getting in the way of "the war."  Yes, the larger
> war against Terror.  This is the war we will have to continue to fight until
> the Islamists give up their goal of 1) a greater Muslim Arabia as one united
> ummah and 2) their conquering of the entire world for Islam (a goal voiced
> by Sayyid Qutb and repeated by Osama bin Laden).
> 
> The insurgency in Iraq isn't going to succeed but it does provide some doubt
> about how well the U.S. is doing in the minds of people who are
> anti-American or don't precisely trust America.  If you listen to the
> insurgents, they are doing pretty well.  If you listen to the Iraqi and
> American forces, it's only a matter of time before they are wiped out -- or
> at least reduced to a trickle.
> 
> Getting an Iraqi force up to speed has taken some time.  The president spoke
> of some failures in that regard -- of some Iraqi units that ran away, but
> most of the Iraqi units are learning their trade and the existence of this
> force will enable the U.S. to back off at some point and let the Iraqis do
> their own policing of insurgents.
> 
> Lawrence
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From:  Andy Amago
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Lawrence Helm
> 
> Gad!  We are not in the middle of a major war.  
> 
> 
> A.A.  Before we go any further, I think you'll have to decide whether we're
> in a major war or not.  In previous posts you claimed that 1,300 casualties
> is not a lot for a major war.  I can go back and find the posts if you
> insist, but for convenience I'll go with Michael Chase's quoting of your
> words:
> 
> 
> Le 1 janv. 05, 03:55, Lawrence Helm a =E9crit :
> 
> 
>>The war?  We've removed Saddam Hussein and his army at the expense =
> 
> of a
> 
>>casualty rate lower than in any major war in history.
> 
> 
> 
> Then, repeating the words in this post, you wrote: Gad!  We are not in the
> middle of a major war.  
> 
> 
> A.A. Okay, Laurence, which one is it?
> 
> 
> L.H.   You won't read about warfare
> and so believe the silly things you read in the Left-leaning media.  
> 
> 
> 
> A.A. Thank God for that Left-leaning media or you would have nothing to
> scapegoat.
> 
> 
> 
> L.H.  The
> war, such as it was is over. We are rounding up a few insurgents.  80% of
> Iraq not only supports our efforts but is trying to get up to speed so they
> can take care of things without us.  Of the remaining 20%, i.e., the Sunnis,
> only the Baathist remnant, the Saddam diehards are engaged in the
> insurgency.  They have some support from the Islamists, but how much is
> uncertain.
> 
> 
> 
> A.A.  If it's no big deal, why aren't the Iraqis handling it by now?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> L.H.  In other parts of the world, EU Leftists wonder if our war against
> terror is
> a real war because there "are only a few thousand" terrorists in existence
> on the planet.
> 
> Also, I'm not doing any fighting.  Are you?  I did at one time rush off to a
> war but I'm not personally fighting one at present. You complain about the
> war and then imply that you too are sacrificing in some way.  Insofar as
> anyone listens to you, you are only interfering.  The volunteer troops in
> Iraq are doing whatever sacrificing is occurring.  
> 
> 
> 
> A.A. Again I'm going to ask you to make up your mind.  In other posts you
> said the Leftist Media was getting in the way of supporting the war effort.
> What did you mean by that?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> L.H.  Also, get enough what the first time?  
> 
> 
> 
> A.A.  I thought you knew what you were referrring to when you wrote:
> 
> "To paraphrase and reapply Nixon's famous exit line, you're going to have
> Bush to kick around for four more years!  So I understand that you need to
> take your political pleasures where you can find them.  In four years, after
> Hillary has taken office, it will be our turn :-("
> 
> 
> So, answering your question, get enough of kicking Hillary [and Bill] around
> the first time.
> 
> 
> 
> L.H.  A few insults and disjointed
> irrelevancies?  
> 
> 
> 
> A.A. I would say dragging the president of the U.S. through impeachment
> after a $40 million investigation that wound up in a dead end is a bit more
> than a number of insults and disjointed irrelevancies.    
> 
> 
> 
> L.H.  I complained at the time that you couldn't mount an argument
> and you responded with a few more insults and irrelevancies.  Yeah, I
> suppose you are going to give me some more of those.  I can hardly wait.
> 
> 
> 
> A.A.  Maybe you can't mount an argument because you're not sure what side of
> your mouth you're talking out of.  First you claim it's not a major war, now
> it a major war.  First the media are impeding the war effort, now there is
> no war effort.  Which one is it?  The fact remains that Bush is throwing a
> $40 million party while our boys and girls are dying in Iraq.  There's no
> point in even mentioning the hell that we're putting the Iraqis through
> simply getting their kids to school without being kidnapped or killed by a
> car bomb.  Great time for a $40 million party.  
> 
> 
> Andy Amago
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lawrence Helm
> Sgt. USMC
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: lit-ideas-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:lit-ideas-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
> On Behalf Of Andy Amago
> Sent: Saturday, January 01, 2005 7:10 AM
> To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx; lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: [lit-ideas] Re: Priorities
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Lawrence Helm <lawrencehelm@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Sent: Dec 31, 2004 5:07 PM
> To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: [lit-ideas] Re: Priorities
> 
> To paraphrase and reapply Nixon's famous exit line, you're going to have
> Bush to kick around for four more years!  So I understand that you need to
> take your political pleasures where you can find them.  In four years, after
> Hillary has taken office, it will be our turn :-(
> 
> 
> 
> A.A.  Just didn't get enough the first time around.  BTW, why do you think
> Bush is having a gigantic party while we are in the middle of a major war,
> as you say.  Where is the shared sacrifice?  
> 
> 
> Andy Amago
> 
> 
> 
> Lawrence
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: lit-ideas-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:lit-ideas-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
> On Behalf Of Robert Paul
> Sent: Friday, December 31, 2004 12:21 PM
> To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: [lit-ideas] Re: Priorities
> 
> On 28 December I wrote:
> 
> "So far the United States has donated or pledged, mostly through relief 
> agencies,
> $35 million in aid for those areas devastated by the tsunami."
> 
> I then went on to contrast this with the amount to be spent on Bush's
> inauguration.
> 
> In fairness, I should note, as I'm sure everyone is aware, that today the US
> has
> pledged $350 million in relief funds. Whether the inauguration committee
> will
> feel it has to keep up is another matter. 
> 
> (Sorry, Lawrence, I couldn't resist.)
> 
> Robert Paul
> The Reed Institute
> 
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