[lit-ideas] Re: Presumptive Meanings: Geary vs. Davidson
- From: "" <dmarc-noreply@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> (Redacted sender "Jlsperanza@xxxxxxx" for DMARC)
- To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2015 08:19:37 -0500
Nevertheless, as Davidson and Geary say, the key is 'presumption'. What if
all is, nevertheless, a big mispresumption?
The same applies, nevertheless, to meaning -- hence 'presumptive meaning'.
We say things to each other but do we know what we mean?
Nevertheless, Geary gives an example:
Consider
i. The slithy toves
did gyre and gimble upon the wabe,
all mimsy were the borogroves
and the mome raths outgrabe.
Nevertheless, Geary adds: "[T]he thing is, without words to throw around
we''d all be throwing rocks."
On the other hand, nevertheless, we can marvel at the great truth behind
(i).
In a message dated 2/11/2015 11:30:25 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
jejunejesuit.geary2@xxxxxxxxx writes: "Here's a start: The slithy toves did
gyre
and gimble upon the wabe, all mimsy were the borogroves and the mome raths
outgrabe. What greater truth could be said than that?"
The greater truth was for a time missed by Alice. But she took the occasion
for enlightment when meeting Humpty Dumpty.
`You seem very clever at explaining words, sir,' Alice said to Humpty
Dumpty.
`Would you kindly tell me the meaning of the poem called "Jabberwocky"?'
`Let's hear it,' said Humpty Dumpty. `I can explain all the poems that were
ever invented -- and a good many that haven't been invented just yet.'
This sounded very hopeful, so Alice repeated the first verse:
`Twas brillig, and the slithy toves
Did gyre and gimble in the wabe;
All mimsy were the borogoves,
And the mome raths outgrabe.
`That's enough to begin with,' Humpty Dumpty interrupted.
'There are plenty of hard words there.'
"Brillig" means four o'clock in the afternoon -- the time when you begin
*broiling* things for dinner.'
`That'll do very well,' said Alice: and "slithy"?'
`Well, "slithy" means "lithe and slimy."
"Lithe" is the same as "active."
You see it's like a portmanteau -- there are two meanings packed up into
one word.'
`I see it now,' Alice remarked thoughtfully.
`And what are "toves"?'
`Well, "toves" are something like badgers -- they're something like lizards
-- and they're something like corkscrews.'
`They must be very curious looking creatures.'
`They are that,' said Humpty Dumpty: `also they make their nests under
sun-dials -- also they live on cheese.'
`And what's the "gyre" and to "gimble"?'
`To "gyre" is to go round and round like a gyroscope.'
'To "gimble" is to make holes like a gimblet.'
`And "the wabe" is the grass-plot round a sun-dial, I suppose?' asked
Alice, surprised at her own ingenuity.
`Of course it is.'
'It's called "wabe," you know, because it goes a long WAY Before it, and a
long WAY Behind it -- '
`And a long WAY Beyond it on each side,' Alice added.
`Exactly so.'
'Well, then, "mimsy" is "flimsy and miserable" (there's another portmanteau
for you).'
'And a "borogove" is a thing shabby-looking bird with its feathers sticking
out all round -- something like a live mop.'
`And then "mome raths"?' said Alice. `I'm afraid I'm giving you a great
deal of trouble.'
`Well, a "rath" is a sort of green pig.'
'But "mome" I'm not certain about.'
'I *think* it's short for "from home" -- meaning that they'd lost their
way, you know.'
`And what does "outgrabe" mean?'
`Well, "outgribing" is something between bellowing and whistling, with a
kind of sneeze in the middle.'
'However, you'll hear it done, maybe -- down in the wood yonder -- and when
you've once heard it you'll be quite content.'
'Who's been repeating all that hard stuff to you?'
`I read it in a book,' confessed Alice.
Cheers,
Speranza
Geary: "Nevertheless (I've never understood that word -- why "less"?)"
This should possibly be approached alla Davidson -- and HPG -- via logical
form. Is "nevertheless" a logical operator. Is it an adverbial modifier.
Consider Wittgenstein:
"Nevertheless, p"
The merged expression arose somewhere in a mediaeval castle (in the Heart
of England), and was then spelled (by those who could write -- and read):
"neuer þe lesse". The reasons are obvious: Those Englishmen had travelled to
Rome, and seen on inscriptions on buildings that there should not be a
distinction between 'u' and 'v' (hence "neuer" meaning "never"). The "þe"
should of course require no explanation for Geary whose favourite poet is
Chaucer. Chaucer, and many owners of pubs in England use
"ye".
But surely "þe" should be preferred. Not in vain was "þ" called the
'thorn', and a thorn it resembles more than the 'y'.
Anyway, Back in 1300, it was still unmerged: "neuer þe less".
As communications became more fluid, especially in letters and stuff, the
thing merged in the early 14th century as "neuerþeles."
It should be pointed out that 'never' here means "not at all; none the".
In fact, while 'nevertheless' is a merged expression, there are unmerged
expression with 'never' having the same meaning: "never the wiser", "never
the worse".
For the record, what modern linguists call Middle English (it would be
otiose of a middle linguist referring to Middle English) also had
"neverthelater", and the odd thing is that "neverthelater" was used "in same
sense" as
'nevertheless'.
>I've never understood ["nevertheless"] -- why "less"?
Geary is right. Literally, it should be more. "neverthemore". My
presumption is that we have here a case of British misunderstatement -- as in
"less
is more".
Consider a context:
"I applaud him. Nevertheless I bid your patience." (Cfr. Geary: "I applaud
him. Nevertheless. I bid your patience").
"I applaud him. Neverthemore I bid your patience."
Is this more understandable?
Not really, because if 'never' means 'not at all', "neverthemore" becomes
self-contradictory: it is saying that there's none the more -- but there is.
The "less" then is contradicted by the 'never' -- it is the "the" that
becomes otiose: 'neverless' seems apt). Because there is NOT less, as the
expression says, but more.
In general, the expression should not be used unless you have to (but then
that applies to most words).
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