[lit-ideas] Re: Plato's Platitude
- From: Jlsperanza@xxxxxxx
- To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Sun, 11 Nov 2007 11:05:55 EST
Thanks to R. Paul for his coments:
re: 'Platon' as "a vulgar nickname in Ancient Greece".
and too I wonder why the English drop the 'n', and call him "Plato". Must
that be because it's the vocative case?
R. Paul writes as if he objects my view on three counts, as premisses
towards the contrary of my thesis.
First count:
"A child [baby] born around Plato's
time retained the name given by its
[her] father when it was presented
[or introduced, rather than given]
to its male relatives at a family
ritual in the fall of the year of
its birth.
The second count is a hypothetical:
"If 'Platon' means 'broad shouldered,'
'flat,' or whatever, it's remarkable
that a ten-month-old child (ten months
being longest possible time
in our reckoning between birth and
the coming of fall) could exhibit
so distinctly those features allegedly
picked out by the 'nickname' Platon.
And in fact, this is nowhere alleged:
it is the adult Plato who is thus
exemplified in most of the surviving
pieces of sculpture identified as
likenesses of him.
The third count is the conclusion in antithesis to my claim: Roughly:
"'Platon' was not a nickname. Roughly
fifty different Platons have been identified
as living in our near Athens, contemporary
with the only Platon who matters. It was a
name in its own right.
Counterargument to my relying on Diogenes:
"Diogenes Laertius is often cited because
he is the only source who mentions certain
persons and events, and this is, I think,
the main reason why he is thought to
know what he's talking about."
---- Now to my defense:
Diogenes Laertius says that the epitaph on Plato's grave does not even
mention the name 'Plato' but his _real_ name, "Aristocles".
The epitaph is bad enough even for Diogenes Laertius to have the _time_ to
invent it. It runs:
"Here lies Aristocles, too great for envy"
In Greek:
"Entháde de Aristokláes, phthónos oukh 'epetai.
From Liddell-Scott:
phthonos , ho. envy.
So I would rephrase the three (or four) important reservations by R. Paul
using "Aristocles" instead of "Plato"
"A male baby was born and named
"Aristocles" and he retained the
name given by its his father, Ariston,
-- his other, Potone, was also
present at the birth -- when it was
introduced to his relatives at a
'child-warming party' (the "Aristokleia").
Aristokles was born on the 7th day of the
month of Thargelion, during the 88th
Olympiad, on the birthday of Apollo."
Aristockle's maternal side was present
at the 'party', as they held to have
better pedigree than the paternal side."
[This accounts, on my view, also Aristokles' development as a 'gay' person
who had like *33* male lovers but is known to have had only *one* affair with
the 'opposite' sex. Unresolved Oidipus -- and absent father figure. On top of
that, Aristokles was the conception of a sexual abuse. Diogenes tells us:
"Ariston made violent love to Potone" and it was only with the help of
Apollo that Ariston left her "unmolested until her child was born" ("hothen
katharan gamou phulaxai heos tes apokuneseos"). The verb for 'made violent
LOVE'
does not mention Plato's greatest platitude on 'eros' but it's a short verb
meaning 'rape'.
"If 'Platon' means 'broad shouldered,'
'flat,' or whatever, it's remarkable
that a ten-month-old child (ten months
being longest possible time
in our reckoning between birth and
the coming of fall) could exhibit
so distinctly those features allegedly
picked out by the 'nickname' Platon.
That is explained by the fact that his name was "Aristokles", a rather
pretentious name, if you ask him, but natural if you think it comes from a
raper
like "Ariston", who with a name like that ("The Best") we expect should know
better.
Diogenes is usually careful with his quotes, and he wanted to find why
Aristocles was named Aristocles in the first place. He managed to find a
source,
Alexander in his "Succession of Philosophers" who 'informs us', writes
Diogenes, that Aristokles was thus named "after his grandfather".
Now Diogenes does give the genealogical tree for Aristokles, of noble birth.
Both genealogies (maternal and paternal) go back to the Gods -- but I have
not been able to locate this Aristokles, so, for the sake of my argument, I
will place it on the _mother's_ side, but I note that there is a lot to say
for
the contrary view that it was Ariston's father who was called "Aristokles"
(which would tipify the stupid male idea that the root of a name must be
preserved from one generation to another, "Aristo-", "Aristo-", "Aristo'". Our
Aristokles broke the tradition by being gay.
R. Paul continues:
And in fact, this is nowhere alleged:
it is the adult Plato who is thus
exemplified in most of the surviving
pieces of sculpture identified as
likenesses of him.
You are inspiring me to sculpt in clay a likness of the baby --, and we'll
see his broad-shouldered too. But, I would ascribe Paul's inability to
identify a baby as broad shouldered as his own.
I _can_ identify a baby as broad-shouldered. Especially if they were as
_broad_ as Plato's obviously were. In any case, I don't need to prove that
since
his name remained Aristokles till his grave, and it was only from the typical
rough and rude remark by his 'coach' that he received the name by which he
is known by those who Loeb him.
Here is the story of the coach:
"He learned gymnastics under Ariston".
Now beware, this was _not_ Aristokles's father, but
"the Argive wrestler".
The Greek: "egumnasato de para Aristoni to Argeio palaiste". And here is
where Diogenes turns interesting since it is a typical case of what Kripke
calls
'rigid necessity of naming'.
Plato's baptism thus comes as this. Ariston, his coach, took him to the
Isthmian Games, where Aristokles wrestled ("plaisai Isthmi").
So in a sort of _real_ baptism, where all the negativity that the
philosopher was carrying from his father's side, it was his coach (his new
'father',
same name) that erases the previous name and endows the philosopher (or
wrestler, for at that time, he was not yet a philosopher) with a magnificent
endearing name, "Platon"
"aph'ou kai Platon dia ten euexian metonomasthe, proteron Aristokles apo tou
pappo kaloumenos onoma, katha phesis Alexandros en Diadoxais."
"It thus was from his coach, the Argive wrestler, that our wrestler received
the name on "Plato" **on account of his robust figure**". Now in a previous
post, I posted Timon's pun on "Plato, the broad-shouldered" -- a redundancy
if ever there was one. Timon manages to mention "platitude" in the ENGLISH
VERSION of both Hicks and Yonge.
Long in his introduction says that the puns in Diogenes are bad enough for a
Victorian. But I must be a Victorian because I like them, and disagree with
Long. Timon's pun was:
"As Plato placed strange platitudes"
["hos aveplasse Platon ho peplasmena thaumata eidos"]
where you see the Greek word for 'platitude' is the neuter, peplasmenon -- a
reduplication of the root, with a sibilization of the 't' to become 's'
before '-menon'.
Again when I think of what Plato's Platitude was is the idea that for every
noun, n., we can add a -ness suffix and create another.
Diogenes the Hound objected to this. Diogenes Laertius tells us:
"As Plato was conversing about Ideas, and using the nouns, 'tablehood', and
'cuphood', Diogenes [The Hound] said [or 'barked' as I prefer], "Table and
cup I see; but your tablehood and cuphood, Plato, I can nowise see." "That's
readily accounted for, said Plato, "for you have the eyes of a dog".
Plato could be rude while lecturing. It was said that on many an occasion,
it was Aristotle who would remain in the hall till the very last.
"Plato could be verbose and waxing poetical." [Much like Oscar Wilde in
latter days, I imagine -- not everybody's cup of tea. JLS]. "According to
Favorinus, when Plato was reading the dialogue Phaedrus or on the Soul,
Aristotle
alone stayed to the end; the rest of the audience got up and went away."
Hence the idea that Aristotle was the disciple of Aristo-, sorry, Plato. It
was one of the few who could stand him!
Cheers,
JL
The Swimming Pool Library
Buenos Aires, Argentina
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