[lit-ideas] Re: Plato, "Thesis/Antithesis"
- From: Michael Chase <goya@xxxxxxx>
- To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Sun, 08 Aug 2004 11:12:15 -0700
Le 7 ao=FBt 04, =E0 19:58, Jlsperanza@xxxxxxx a =E9crit :
> <snip>
>
>
> and comments:
>
>> Perhaps this occurs only the Argentine edition of Plato's
>> Complete Works.
>
>
>
> Well, not really. In any standard edition -- e.g. of Sophist, 257e, =20=
> 258b)
> you'll find 'antithesis' best translated as 'opposition'.
>
> e.g.
> the online Liddell-Scott:
>
> _http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/cgi-bin/ptext?=20
> doc=3DPerseus%3Atext%3A1999.04.0057%
> 3Aentry%3D%239950_
> (http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/cgi-bin/ptext?doc=3DPerseus:text:=20
> 1999.04.0057:entry=3D#9950)
> anti-_thesis_
> (http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/cgi-bin/morphindex?=20
> lang=3Dgreek&lookup=3Da)nti/=20
> qesis&bytepos=3D8687213&wordcount=3D1&embed=3D2&doc=3DPerseus:text:1999.=
04.00
> 57) , e=C3=B4s, _h=C3=AA_
> (http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/cgi-bin/morphindex?=20
> lang=3Dgreek&lookup=3Dh(&bytepos=3D8687213&wordcount=3D1&embed=3D2&doc=3D=
Perseus:=20
> text:1999.04.0057) ,
> opposition, _Pl.Sph.257e_
> (http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/cgi-bin/ptext?doc=3DPerseus:abo:=20
> tlg,0059,007:257e&vers=3Doriginal&word=3Da)nti/qesis#word1) ,_258b_
> (http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/cgi-bin/ptext?doc=3DPerseus:abo:=20
> tlg,0059,007:258b&vers=3Do
> riginal&word=3Da)nti/qesis#word1)
M.C. This is an impressive collection of links. There are 6 of them in =20=
total=A0; let's go through them, numbering them from 1 through 6:
1. No such file.
2. The Preface to Liddell-Scott's Greek Lexicon. Fascinating, I'm sure, =20=
but without any apparent relevance to the question of thesis/antithesis =20=
in Plato
3. A page which informs us that *antithesis* means "opposition, =20
resistance". I already knew that.
4. A page which informs us that the Greek *ho* and *h=EA* means "the". =20=
Fascinating.
5. A link to the Greek text of Plato, Sophist 257e, where the word =20
*antithesis* occurs. Finally, something relevant to the question at =20
hand!
6. A link to the English translation of the same text as no. 6.
So whereas one might be initially overwhelmed by the sheer =
quantity of =20
links adduced by Mr. Speranza, at the end of the day one finds they =20
increase our knowledge by precisely one point : Plato uses the word =20
*antithesis* at Sophist 257e.
Fine. Now, how relevant is this new fact to the original debate? =
Let's =20
recall its circumstances. Mr. Speranza had written=A0:
"There are ways of conceiving opposition and contradiction which are =20
_not_
Aristotelian (notably Platonic) and thus, less 'square'. Weil may be =20
having that
in mind, too (For Plato, it's the thesis and the antithesis, rather)."
I think this paragraph can be legitimately interpreted as =
claiming : =93 =20
at least one way Plato conceives opposition and contradiction is as =20
thesis and antithesis ".
Now, to confirm this claim, one would like to see a number of =20=
citations in which Plato uses the pair "thesis and antithesis" in the =20=
sense specified above.
Instead, he cites *one* passage where Plato uses *one* of these =
two =20
words.
I leave it to the esteemed readers of lit-ideas, as well as to =
the =20
steely gaze of Posterity, to judge whether Mr. Speranza has in fact =20
confirmed his original claim.
Why, the perspicuous reader may ask, did Mr. Speranza fail to =
cite one =20
of the passages where Plato uses the pair "thesis and antithesis" in =20=
the sense of "opposition and contradiction"?
That one's not hard : because there *is* no such passage. In =
fact, a =20
quick search in the Thesaurus Linguae Graecae suffices to show that =20
Plato *never* uses the two terms together. This one consideration, in =20=
my view, renders all Mr. Speranza's lengthy citations from Wiggins, =20
Dunn, et al. quite otiose.
The simple fact is that Mr. Speranza's original claim, while =
perhaps =20
true for Hegel, is demonstrably false in the case of Plato.
Best, Mike.
>
>
Michael Chase
(goya@xxxxxxxxxxx)
CNRS UPR 76
7, rue Guy Moquet
Villejuif 94801
France
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