Well that would certainly be scientific if you could quantify it in that
fashion, but it isn't like that. I'm familiar with and have my own
opinions about all the poets and most of the poetry Bloom deals with in
this book. It never crossed my mind that someone unfamiliar with these
poets would try to read his book. You would at least have to be
educated in some of these poets' poetry for this book to mean
anything. I had written " He quotes passages to point to what he
means, to what has transported him and presumably we who are also poets
or readers of poetry will agree with most of his argument-by-examples."
His "pointing" includes his personal narrative of why he likes a poem
and what it means and especially what it means to him. The idea of the
sublime will be enhanced, presumably, by each example.
I encountered something similar in Helen Vendler's /Dickinson, Selected
Poems and Commentaries. /She has selected a great number of Dickinson's
poems and discusses them one after the other. She engages in "close
readings." She isn't analytical but she is good at reading poetry
carefully. As it happens Bloom was criticized in a current review for
not providing any close readings in this book. He shares his emotional
attachment and esteem for certain poets and poems. Presumably those who
are educated in poetry will relate to and perhaps be influenced by
Bloom. For example I read Whitman back in the 50s and at first liked
him but then abandoned him. In perhaps the 60s I tried to like Hart
Crane's poetry but failed. Perhaps Bloom will inspire me by his
emotional attachments to revisit my opinions.
Bloom argues from authority, if you will -- his own (in a meek and mild
manner thus far), and he has garnered enough respect over the years to
be listened to. As to his /The Western Canon/ I agreed with him far,
far less than 100% of the time, but in this book he goes beyond mere
lists and tells us why he likes certain poets and poems.
Lawrence
On 10/2/2015 3:43 PM, Paul Stone wrote:
But...can you really define something by just giving me a bunch of examples of what you mean? How many does it take? Am I thick if I don't get it in 20? 1000?
"The Western Canon" is interesting, but I can't agree 100%
On Oct 2, 2015 6:41 PM, "Lawrence Helm" <lawrencehelm@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:lawrencehelm@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>> wrote:
Well now wait a minute (Geary has gotten me into an argumentative
mood today), Bloom by virtue of being a well-established critic is
in an excellent position to argue that certain poets and poems
achieve this thing he calls the American sublime. I don't think
any philosopher can do it. Philosophers can argue about the
meaning of abstract sublimity, but they can't relate sublime to
certain American poets as effectively as Bloom can.
Sublime as I take Bloom to mean is the poetry or literature that
transports us aesthetically. He quotes passages to point to what
he means, to what has transported him and presumably we who are
also poets or readers of poetry will agree with most of his
argument-by-examples; which is a non-philosophical but at the same
time much more satisfying way of describing the American sublime.
Lawrence
On 10/2/2015 3:14 PM, (Redacted sender Jlsperanza for DMARC) wrote:
In a message dated 10/2/2015 11:26:15 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
lawrencehelm@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
<mailto:lawrencehelm@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> writes:
the ones he likes the best, the ones in whom he finds this
sublimity.
Bloom is no philosopher and we shouldn't expect him to provide
a conceptual
analysis of the sublime, but Catherine Lord we should! (*).
I don't think Popper ever discussed the beautiful-sublime
distinction, but
then why should he (cfr. Lakatos and the idea of the beautiful in
mathematics).
While I should not mention H. P. G., I should his sometime
colleague (and
sometime of Cornell), F. N. Sibley: that's the one I would
expect us to
provide a fruitful conceptual analysis of whether this
distinction between the
beautiful and the sublime 'holds', metaphorically, water.
Cheers,
Speranza
Lord, Catherine, "A Gricean approach to aesthetic
instrumentalism", The
British Journal of Aesthetics.
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