[lit-ideas] Re: Patria

  • From: Omar Kusturica <omarkusto@xxxxxxxxx>
  • To: "lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx" <lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • Date: Sat, 16 Feb 2013 14:03:32 -0800 (PST)

Well the ideological meaning seems fairly clear to me, a cultural and political 
continuity is sought with Spanish / European culture rather than with Native 
American cultures. Am i misinterpreting or missing something ?


O.K.



________________________________
 From: "Jlsperanza@xxxxxxx" <Jlsperanza@xxxxxxx>
To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx 
Sent: Saturday, February 16, 2013 3:28 AM
Subject: [lit-ideas] Re: Patria
 


In a message dated 2/15/2013 11:43:03 A.M. UTC-02,  omarkusto@xxxxxxxxx 
quotes from Wikipedia "Homeland" 
"la Madre Patria" as  Spain, but  
currently without any ideological meaning", 

and  asks:

>Really ? Without ideological meaning ?

----

I  wouldn't know. That's why I qualified the thing,

"without any ideological  meaning", which is usually the most dangerous of 
them -- or  something.

What mystifies me is that the French call their thing the  "mère patrie".

I mean, it makes sort of sense to think that a Mexican of Spanish descent  
may refer to Spain as "la madre patria". But what are the FRENCH thinking  
of?

I have not checked for collocations in Italian.

But wait a sec.

From googlebooks, one hit reads:

"La madre patria del ciarlatanismo in questo genere è Napoli."

And they should know.

----

Now, of course, the idea, as per the Short/Lewis dictionary, that 

"patria" is short for "patria terra" is a bit of a stretch, although  
possibly right.

It should be of course noted then that the adjective is

patrius, patria, patrium.

And I should check if there is, as it should, the corresponding

matrius, matria, matrium.

Apparently, there's not. There is of course, maternus, as per below, but no 
special collocation as the "terra" being "materna".

McCreery is possibly right that America, and for that matter, Argentina,  
and ITALIA, and FRANCIA, are to be seen as feminine. So "motherland England"  
makes sense -- which is the phrase that occurs in that favourite ballad of 
mine  from Merrie England

And Nations to Eastward,
And Nations to Westward,
As foemen may curse  them,
The Yeomen of England!
No other land could nurse them,
---->  But their Mother-land, old England!
And on her broad bosom shall they ever  thrive,
Shall they, - shall they ever thrive!

which incidentally remains a beautiful metric mystery for me -- how  
'thrive' fits so well even if it doesn't rhyme with anything before!

Cheers,

Speranza




māternus , a, um, adj. mater, 
I. of or belonging to a mother, maternal  (class.): sanguis, Enn. ap. Non. 
292, 16 (Trag. v. 184 Vahl.): “paternus  maternusque sanguis,” Cic. Rosc. 
Am. 24, 66: “animus,” Ter. Heaut. 4, 1, 24:  “nomen,” Cic. Clu. 5, 12: “
menses,” the months of pregnancy, Nemes. Cyn. 19:  “tempora,” time of 
pregnancy, Ov. M. 3, 312: Caesar cingens maternā tempora  myrto, i. e. of 
Venus, the 
mother of Æneas, from whom sprang the race of the  Cæsars, Verg. G. 1, 28: “
arma (Aeneae),” i. e. which his mother Venus had  obtained for him from 
Vulcan, id. A. 12, 107: “aves,” i. e. the doves sacred to  Venus, id. ib. 6, 
193: “avus,” i. e. Atlas, the father of Maia, the mother of  Mercury, id. 
ib. 4, 258: “Delum maternam invisit Apollo,” i. e. where his mother  Latona 
had borne him, id. ib. 144: aequora, i. e. from which she (Venus) was  born, 
Ov. F. 4, 131: “Numa,” related by the mother's side, id. P. 3, 2, 105;  
cf.: “an ad maternos Latinos hoc senatus consultum pertineat,” Gai. Inst. 3, 
71:  “nobilitas,” by the mother's side, Verg. A. 11, 340: Idus, i. e. of May 
(Mercury's birthday), Mart. 7, 71 5—Of animals: “ut agnus condiscat 
maternum  trahere alimentum,” Col. 7, 3: “perdix materna vacans cura,” Plin. 
10, 
33, 51, §  103.



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