Well the ideological meaning seems fairly clear to me, a cultural and political continuity is sought with Spanish / European culture rather than with Native American cultures. Am i misinterpreting or missing something ? O.K. ________________________________ From: "Jlsperanza@xxxxxxx" <Jlsperanza@xxxxxxx> To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Sent: Saturday, February 16, 2013 3:28 AM Subject: [lit-ideas] Re: Patria In a message dated 2/15/2013 11:43:03 A.M. UTC-02, omarkusto@xxxxxxxxx quotes from Wikipedia "Homeland" "la Madre Patria" as Spain, but currently without any ideological meaning", and asks: >Really ? Without ideological meaning ? ---- I wouldn't know. That's why I qualified the thing, "without any ideological meaning", which is usually the most dangerous of them -- or something. What mystifies me is that the French call their thing the "mère patrie". I mean, it makes sort of sense to think that a Mexican of Spanish descent may refer to Spain as "la madre patria". But what are the FRENCH thinking of? I have not checked for collocations in Italian. But wait a sec. From googlebooks, one hit reads: "La madre patria del ciarlatanismo in questo genere è Napoli." And they should know. ---- Now, of course, the idea, as per the Short/Lewis dictionary, that "patria" is short for "patria terra" is a bit of a stretch, although possibly right. It should be of course noted then that the adjective is patrius, patria, patrium. And I should check if there is, as it should, the corresponding matrius, matria, matrium. Apparently, there's not. There is of course, maternus, as per below, but no special collocation as the "terra" being "materna". McCreery is possibly right that America, and for that matter, Argentina, and ITALIA, and FRANCIA, are to be seen as feminine. So "motherland England" makes sense -- which is the phrase that occurs in that favourite ballad of mine from Merrie England And Nations to Eastward, And Nations to Westward, As foemen may curse them, The Yeomen of England! No other land could nurse them, ----> But their Mother-land, old England! And on her broad bosom shall they ever thrive, Shall they, - shall they ever thrive! which incidentally remains a beautiful metric mystery for me -- how 'thrive' fits so well even if it doesn't rhyme with anything before! Cheers, Speranza māternus , a, um, adj. mater, I. of or belonging to a mother, maternal (class.): sanguis, Enn. ap. Non. 292, 16 (Trag. v. 184 Vahl.): “paternus maternusque sanguis,” Cic. Rosc. Am. 24, 66: “animus,” Ter. Heaut. 4, 1, 24: “nomen,” Cic. Clu. 5, 12: “ menses,” the months of pregnancy, Nemes. Cyn. 19: “tempora,” time of pregnancy, Ov. M. 3, 312: Caesar cingens maternā tempora myrto, i. e. of Venus, the mother of Æneas, from whom sprang the race of the Cæsars, Verg. G. 1, 28: “ arma (Aeneae),” i. e. which his mother Venus had obtained for him from Vulcan, id. A. 12, 107: “aves,” i. e. the doves sacred to Venus, id. ib. 6, 193: “avus,” i. e. Atlas, the father of Maia, the mother of Mercury, id. ib. 4, 258: “Delum maternam invisit Apollo,” i. e. where his mother Latona had borne him, id. ib. 144: aequora, i. e. from which she (Venus) was born, Ov. F. 4, 131: “Numa,” related by the mother's side, id. P. 3, 2, 105; cf.: “an ad maternos Latinos hoc senatus consultum pertineat,” Gai. Inst. 3, 71: “nobilitas,” by the mother's side, Verg. A. 11, 340: Idus, i. e. of May (Mercury's birthday), Mart. 7, 71 5—Of animals: “ut agnus condiscat maternum trahere alimentum,” Col. 7, 3: “perdix materna vacans cura,” Plin. 10, 33, 51, § 103. ------------------------------------------------------------------ To change your Lit-Ideas settings (subscribe/unsub, vacation on/off, digest on/off), visit www.andreas.com/faq-lit-ideas.html