Palma makes a point about avoiding 'otiosities' in conversation. He advises us to "avoid the locution "as such" - it is purely bullshit thrown in to show that one speaks with the literati. Consider," he says, "what is meaning as such?" and contrast with "what is meaning?". Implicature: You see: no distinction. Only, perhaps a _fine_ or nice (literally nescius) Griceian distinction. He adds: "If anyone has a non trivial case to be made for the use of 'as such' I am unable to fathom it." In a message dated 4/30/2014 8:14:49 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, palmaadriano@xxxxxxxxx writes: palma as such is the name of an Island in Spain. According to Short's and Lewis's Latin Dictionary, 'palma', as such, refers to the palm of the hand. All other usages, are, as such, then, derivative -- or 'transferred' from the original etymon. Cheers, Speranza ---- Short and Lewis state that the Romans started to use 'palma' as a transliteration of Greek παλάμη. Cognate with Sanscrit, "phal", to open. As such, 'palma' was used by the Romans to refer, first and foremost, to: i. the palm of the hand. There are at least fifteen transferred uses of 'palma' as such, i.e. the palm of the hand. ii. (pars pro toto.) the hand. iii. the sole of a goose's foot (Plin. 10, 22, 27, § 52) iv. the broad end or blade of an oar (Non. 151, 27). v. a palm-tree, a palm. vi. the FRUIT of the palm-tree, a date (poet.) (Ov. F. 1, 185) vii. a palm-branch, e. g. which was suspended in wine to make it sweeter (Cato, R. R. 113). viii. a broom made of palm-twigs (Hor. S. 2, 4, 83) ix. a palm-branch or palm-wreath, as a token of victory, dedicated to Jupiter. x. a token or badge of victory, the palm or prize; and still more gen., victory, honor, glory, pre-eminence. xi. the topmost twig or branch of any tree (Liv. 33, 5, 10) xii. a branch on a tree (Plin. 17, 23, 35, § 202) xiii. the fruit of an Egyptian tree (Plin. 12, 22, 47, § 103) xiv. an aromatic plant growing in Africa and Syria (Plin. 12, 28, 62, § 134) xv. a marine plant, Plin. 13, 25, 49, § 138. Finally, the use that Palma takes as being 'as such' as such. xvi. A town in the Balearic islands (Plin. 3, 5, 11, § 77). ------------------------------------------------------------------ To change your Lit-Ideas settings (subscribe/unsub, vacation on/off, digest on/off), visit www.andreas.com/faq-lit-ideas.html