JS: >>"If you examine all the alternative possibilities to gods (including Marx, >>Mao, Hitler and Washington) you will see why gods are difficult to >>dismiss."<< Is that Marx as in Brothers or Karl? And is that Washington the Washington of George or DC? With Mao and Hitler there's no ambiguity. Their names are eponymous for crimes against humanity. The very names cry out for a God more than anything else I know of -- a cry for supernatural retributive justice. Ah, yes -- but, so what? Justice? What does that mean? It means we're the good guys, each and everyone of us, we all know that. Arab, Jew and Mexican too, USA and Germany and (God love 'em) even Norway. We've all got God on our side (though, due to his mysterious ways, He sure does take his own goddamn time wreaking vengeance. Praise for a man's ashes is rather late, Lord -- as Cicero or Cataline or Castro, whoever, once said. So too is vengeance. Do you hear me, God? De profundis clamavi ad te, Domine. I personally want to see the bastards who offended me suffer -- and gruesomely). Please don't take my irritation with God's seeming lack of urgency in coming to my defense as dismissive of religious belief. I don't believe in God at all, but I do have enormous religious belief. Culture is religion after all. Culture is the most horrendous religion of them all because culture defines religion. Defines God! Yikes! You can be an atheist, if raised in the right culture, but it's not possible to be an aculturalist. And so, as our culture tell us, Gods are difficult to dismiss because the alternative is OUR SELVES alone in an infinitely indifferent universe -- our lives amounting to no more than an effervescent moment of organismic self-consciousness. We all want our precious loves and elations and sorrows and sufferings to have everlasting meaning. And we want vindication. For that we need a God. I have no problem with that. God will, I trust, right the wrongs done to me -- eventually. And they are many. Mike Geary 20 years later ----- Original Message ----- From: Jack Spratt To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Sent: Saturday, August 26, 2006 3:22 PM Subject: [lit-ideas] Re: One fewer god "If you examine all the alternative possibilities to gods (including Marx, Mao, Hitler and Washington) you will see why gods are difficult to dismiss." J.S. The one thing we lack is a handy utopia. Andreas Ramos <andreas@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote: "I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours." yrs, andreas www.andreas.com ------------------------------------------------------------------ To change your Lit-Ideas settings (subscribe/unsub, vacation on/off, digest on/off), visit www.andreas.com/faq-lit-ideas.html __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com