[lit-ideas] Re: OLD JOKES
- From: "Judith Evans" <judithevans1@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: <lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2007 14:25:41 +0100
John, I agree that context is important and that email can be an imperfect
medium (what you say about your marriage does not, though, surprise me).
I do still object to
less
> concerned about PC speech than such minor matters as reproductive
> rights, equal pay for equal work, that sort of thing.
because of its implications in the context of this thread (and I have
objections to the use of 'PC' as some kind of insult). But let me
indicate the context of my reply to you (and also clarify something I said).
I entered this thread to say that
>> > That dept is now filled with feminists. And they don't think anything
>> > is funny.
is not funny. You happened to reply to that....
Amendment/clarification
I wrote
>As to what sexist jokes actually are, what
>they manifest, Bernard Levin thought they (and more specifically,
>jokes about feminism) were a manifestation of fear.
Levin's very good, positively blistering piece, written at the height
of his powers, was prompted by the derision that, then, greeted
feminism's wish for a more sex/gender free (use of) language,
and its protest at the generic 'man'. It was, then, the jokes
about feminism and feminists that he thought manifestations of
a great fear, though he also made it clear that he thought humour
itself frequently both manifested and disguised fear. So he was
not actually talking about 'jokes about women'.
> There is more going on when the wife shows her husband that joke than
> feminist theory, deployed as stereotypes every bit as crude as those
> it struggles against, has bothered to imagine.
I suggest your knowledge of feminist theory is limited.
Judy Evans, Cardiff
----- Original Message -----
From: "John McCreery" <john.mccreery@xxxxxxxxx>
To: <lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2007 11:42 AM
Subject: [lit-ideas] Re: OLD JOKES
> On 7/18/07, Judith Evans <judithevans1@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>
> >
> > is a woman who's upset by men yelling 'get your knickers off' when she
> > stands to make a political speech alienated because she, an enjoyer of
> > the life of the mind, feels increasingly powerless?
>
> Heavens no, a woman in that situation has every right to be upset; any
> individual in that situation has every right to be upset. But I might
> ask in return, is a woman who shares a sexist joke with her husband,
> knowing that he will be amused, as much by the "good old boy from
> Dixie" stereotypes as what the fisherman say to each other, to be
> judged in the same way as the absolutely appalling men in your
> example? I don't think so.
>
> Plus, such are the limitations of e-mail that you have no way of
> knowing that this sort of exchange has long been part of the banter
> that's sustained a marriage for 38 years or that the woman in question
> is from Indiana and has long affected horror toward the South and all
> things Southern; to which her husband replies by adopting a highly
> affected Southern accent and leaning over to kiss her while saying,
> "How 'bout some sugar....honey," at which she rolls her eyes. Or that
> the husband's brother has, in fact, for years adopted the persona of a
> good old boy (subspecies Chesapeake Bay waterman, hunt club and NRA
> member), while both men are married to highly capable women who have
> pursued their own careers (one a registered nurse and nurse supervisor
> specializing in geriatic disorders, the other president of the
> translation company where her husband now earns his living). Neither
> of the brothers would make any serious decision affecting their
> families or livelihoods without consulting their spouses, for whom
> they have the highest respect.
>
> There is more going on when the wife shows her husband that joke than
> feminist theory, deployed as stereotypes every bit as crude as those
> it struggles against, has bothered to imagine.
>
> Now, about the fetishization of language to which I point....
>
> John
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> John McCreery
> The Word Works, Ltd., Yokohama, JAPAN
> Tel. +81-45-314-9324
> http://www.wordworks.jp/
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