Referring to the Ashbery poem I posted, John wrote: "Do note, however, that he had to write a poem . . . there's that damned language again." But I wasn't referring to the words of the poem. I was referring to what the poem was pointing to, to what the poem made one feel. In other words, Ashbery's poem points the reader to a view of objects many of us participate in . . . the wordless meaning of the object's simply being (for lack of better words, yuk-yuk). We can have this feeling with or without Ashbery's poem, and Ashbery could have tried to summon that feeling with other words. Quite a tangle, isn't it? There is a wordless sense of Being's meaning that can be summoned by words, but the sense doesn't exist in the words. At this point, the Zen master hits me on the head. Hard. Not confusing a finger pointing at a bruise with the bruise, Eric ------------------------------------------------------------------ To change your Lit-Ideas settings (subscribe/unsub, vacation on/off, digest on/off), visit www.andreas.com/faq-lit-ideas.html