[lit-ideas] Re: None Dare Call It Reason

  • From: wokshevs@xxxxxx
  • To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx, Mike Geary <atlas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • Date: Sun, 5 Oct 2008 18:03:46 -0230

Good to be back after 12 days in McCain country. (Very scary place. Almost as
scary as what's happening with General Electric.) 

Linguistic competence at 20 paces --------------->

Quoting Mike Geary <atlas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>:

> WO:
> > Given the prevalence of this expression [like] amongst my students in
> Canada, the
> > US and the UK, I have repeatedly attempted to deconstruct its meaning. My
> > tentative conclusion is that the expression serves a particular
> psychological
> > and social function: it distances the speaker from an explicit and direct
> > affirmation of the accuracy or truth of the utterance, and, thus, it
> mitigates
> > any responsibility the speaker may have for redeeming/justifying the truth
> or
> > rightness of the claim.


To which MG, like, goes:

> You wish.  "Like" has all the meaning of "uh".  Pure filler.  It functions
> like in "you know?"  Like it serves as a  kind of -- um, you know, like, a
> breath gap. 

------------------> My native speaker intuitions clearly conflict with Mike's
native speaker intuitions. What do linguists do in such a case?
Anthropologists? (We'll keep the philosophers out of this since this is not a
philosophical matter. Unless of course somebody disagrees ...)

MG:

>  Not everything is reducible to philosophy, Walter.  

-----------> Interesting philosophical claim. Is there not something odd or
ironic about the "fact" that a statement regarding the limitations or falsity
(wrongness, if you prefer) of (a) philosophical claim(s) requires to itself be
a philosophical statement?

MG:
> Some things
> preserve their like, you know, um, uh, hmm, purity of unmeaning despite all
> or cognitions..

-----> I don't understand that sentence.


WO:
> > The most systematic explication of the "like" phenomenon in social and
> political
> > contexts, is provided in John Rawls's "Political Liberalism." Like, you
> know
> > what I mean? No claims of substantive truth or rightness are involved.


MG:
> Well, uh, hmm, I guess I'm like going to have to go with Rawls here.  It's
> all just made up as far as I can tell.  Truth is just a wild ass guess.  But
> some of the made up makes more sense than other made up does -- at least
> according to my make up of make ups.  In other words, I don't believe in
> revelation.

---------------> I don't find this intelligible. Some of it is
self-contradictory. For example, to say "Truth is ...,"  is to make a truth
claim - specifically a truth claim about truth. How can such a claim itself be
a "wild ass guess?" Surely not even Sarah Pailin would claim that (unless
propmpted to do so). 

Back in the saddle,

Walter O.


> 
> 
> Mike Geary
> Memphis
> for sure
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: <wokshevs@xxxxxx>
> To: <lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>; "David Ritchie" <ritchierd@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Cc: <lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Sent: Friday, September 19, 2008 1:47 PM
> Subject: [lit-ideas] Re: None Dare Call It Reason
> 
> 
> > Quoting David Ritchie <ritchierd@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>:
> > 
> >> Paradox that occurred to me while walking:
> > 
> > WO: Was the paradox that dawned upon you that you could never possibly
> arrive
> > at
> > your destination and yet you did?  If so, beware of the giggling
> milkmaids.
> > (They may take you in.)
> > 
> > 
> >> the generation  
> >> characterized by over-use of "like" struggles when asked to formulate  
> >> comparative statements for analytical purposes.
> > 
> > WO: Given the prevalence of this expression amongst my students in Canada,
> the
> > US and the UK, I have repeatedly attempted to deconstruct its meaning. My
> > tentative conclusion is that the expression serves a particular
> psychological
> > and social function: it distances the speaker from an explicit and direct
> > affirmation of the accuracy or truth of the utterance, and, thus, it
> mitigates
> > any responsibility the speaker may have for redeeming/justifying the truth
> or
> > rightness of the claim. ("Hey, I'm just talkin'. Like, what, I'm supposed
> to
> > always know why I believe what I believe? Or, like, I gotta be able to
> prove to
> > you that anything I says is right really is right? Like, who the hell are
> you
> > anyway? An what is "really right," like, really anyway. Who are you,
> anyways,
> > God? John Rawls??
> > 
> > On this theory, when it is said - "So when she told me that I failed my
> test, I
> > felt, like, how could I fail that test?!" - the "like" serves to qualify
> the
> > validity of the response and signals to others that any perception by them
> of
> > the speaker's certainty of the truth or rightness of the sentence uttered
> is
> > inappropriate and misplaced. The speaker thus shields herself from others'
> > queries regarding any final validity of her claim since she is not
> expressedly
> > claiming the claim as presented/uttered. It's only "like" I'm claiming the
> > claim, but not really - like, you know what I mean? (Yes, things get to be
> > recursive, after awhile.)
> > 
> > The most systematic explication of the "like" phenomenon in social and
> political
> > contexts, is provided in John Rawls's "Political Liberalism." Like, you
> know
> > what I mean? No claims of substantive truth or rightness are involved.
> > 
> > Like, Walter O.
> > MUN
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> >> 
> >> David Ritchie,
> >> Portland, Oregon
> >> 
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> > 
> > 
> > 
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