[lit-ideas] Re: Nation Building
- From: "Lawrence Helm" <lawrencehelm@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: <lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Tue, 7 Feb 2006 09:39:57 -0800
I refer you to the governments, both state and national as they have been
set up. What I say isn't intended to be "odd," but merely our particular
governments as they have been set up. The responsibility of the federal
government is (was?) to do the things the States couldn't do for themselves.
One of its primary responsibilities was national defense. My approval or
disapproval doesn't enter into it. You, being a Californian, know that we
are to a large extent on our own in regard to fixing our economy. That's
the way our nation and states have been set up. The Central government does
the things the states can't do for themselves. I'll grant you that there
have been inroads in this system. Those interested in more centralized
control and entitlements have moved some powers and responsibilities from
the States to the Central Governments, but more recently there has been an
effort to move them back again. But the primary responsibility for the
economic well being of a given state has always been that given state's
(including State government and internal state businesses) responsibility.
I notice that no one has seen an inconsistency in France coming over and
offering to help New Orleans rebuild even though France is in one economic
crises after another. France won't vote itself higher taxes to pay for the
entitlements its citizens voted themselves and there may very well be
Frenchmen wondering what France is doing in New Orleans when some of their
entitlements are in jeopardy.
It wouldn't be possible to shift money directly from national defense over
to helping an individual state. Money going to help a state has to be voted
by congress. Money (but not National Defense money) has been voted for that
purpose. Mayor Nevin thinks it isn't enough. I don't know whether it is or
not.
Lawrence
-----Original Message-----
From: lit-ideas-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:lit-ideas-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
On Behalf Of Andreas Ramos
Sent: Tuesday, February 07, 2006 9:06 AM
To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [lit-ideas] Re: Nation Building
Lawrence, isn't there a bit of inconsistency here? You approve that the USA
spend one to two
trillion dollars (that's two thousand billion dollars) to rebuild Iraq. And
you also say New
Orleans (a previous American city) should fend for itself. You talk about
national defense
as the highest priority, yet you also say it's every state for itself. Isn't
that a bit odd?
yrs,
andreas
www.andreas.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lawrence Helm" <lawrencehelm@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Tuesday, February 07, 2006 8:42 AM
Subject: [lit-ideas] Re: Nation Building
"Nuff said"????
You haven't said nearly enough. I don't know what you mean. We have been
talking about New Orleans. If you want to relate that to Iraq you need to
develop an argument that does that. I can't think of such an argument, but
perhaps you can.
Lawrence
_____
From: lit-ideas-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:lit-ideas-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
On Behalf Of Andy Amago
Sent: Tuesday, February 07, 2006 8:03 AM
To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [lit-ideas] Re: Nation Building
But you think Iraq is a success too. Nuff said.
----- Original Message -----
From: Lawrence <mailto:lawrencehelm@xxxxxxxxxxxx> Helm
To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: 2/7/2006 10:49:29 AM
Subject: [lit-ideas] Re: Nation Building
Irene,
The Civil War was fought over whether there would be more or fewer States
Rights. The States initially wanted their independence and the
Constitution never said they couldnt have it. Nothing legally prevented
South Carolina from seceding from the Union, although the North being in the
majority past laws to prevent that at some point (I forget the details) but
by then it was too late and South Carolina did it anyway because they didnt
trust the North one whit. After the Civil War the central government had
more power than before. Nevertheless, even today, States have considerable
responsibility for their own welfare. States have made deals, largely
through their representatives in Congress to get special benefits from the
central government, but the States arent owed total economic protection.
I live in California and for a number of reasons weve had some economic
problems out here. The central government doesnt have to bail us out.
Governor Swarzenegger doesnt have government paternalism to fall back on.
He is scrambling to make trade deals with foreign countries to get more
business in here, especially since to some extent we are operating like
France. The State Government needs more money to take care of its
commitments, but we wont vote ourselves higher taxes to accomplish that.
Swarzenegger is doing something like Nevin is doing in inviting trade and
economic deals from foreign countries. Im sure that any deal France makes
in New Orleans is going to have the same sort of strings attached to it that
investors from foreign nations will have in California.
You have asked about political viewpoints from time to time. The idea that
goes, I am poor, you are rich, therefore you owe me some of your riches,
isnt in the American tradition. It is sort of in the Marxist tradition.
One of their slogans was from each according to his ability, to each
according to his need. That Marxist ideal is not a criterion in Liberal
Democracy. If we become rich, we are not obligated to give our riches to
the poor. The only way money gets from the rich to the poor is through
taxes, charity and the employment of the poor in the enterprises of the
rich.
The American ideal is that everyone has the freedom to work hard and improve
his lot, even to the point of becoming rich. I have read theorists argue
that is why our economy runs so much more smoothly than that of welfare
states like France, let alone the failed Socialist states of the USSR and
Eastern Europe. People are willing to work hard to improve their lot. They
arent so willing to do that if the sluggards and inept are getting as much
pay as they are. Human nature works in favor of the Liberal-Democratic
economic and against the aforementioned Socialist one.
As weve discussed elsewhere, some Marxist ideals like the 8 hour working
day have been incorporated into American Society. I believe the last time I
mentioned this some scoffed, and thought it was FDR. I was basing my
statement on having struggled through most of Das Kapital years ago. Here
is Marx on the Working Day.
http://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1867-c1/ch10.htm
Lawrence
_____
From: lit-ideas-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:lit-ideas-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
On Behalf Of Andy Amago
Sent: Tuesday, February 07, 2006 6:46 AM
To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [lit-ideas] Re: Nation Building
Louisiana is one of the poorest states in the Union. There's nothing united
about the United States if it's every man for himself. The government has
no problem giving handouts to the ultra rich, but for everybody else, it's
welfare. Let the ultra rich give us back our money if you're so against
welfare. Tell them to get their frikkin fingers out of Medicare. Never
mind. It amazes me that people so enjoy living in a kennel where dog eating
dog is a desirable way of life, and since we're drowning in debt it's not
like the government is exactly setting a good example for fiscal
responsibility.
----- Original Message -----
From: Lawrence <mailto:lawrencehelm@xxxxxxxxxxxx> Helm
To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: 2/7/2006 1:25:35 AM
Subject: [lit-ideas] Re: Nation Building
This could be a good thing. We are United States, but the individual
States still have considerable responsibilities for their own destinies,
despite Mayor Nagins words which suggest hed rather we were a little more
like a Welfare State.
Im not surprised to see Jordan jumping in, and if the French want to
rebuild a relationship with the Louisiana Cajuns, then Im for it. Its
nice to hear of them doing something other than lambasting us although
theyll probably lambaste Washington while helping New Orleans.
Of critics, there is no end.
Lawrence
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