[lit-ideas] Re: Muslim Prejudice (Judy?)
- From: Judith Evans <judithevans001@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2011 20:19:49 +0000 (GMT)
Oh sorry, I meant, so now you've read Sayeed Warsi's speech you've modified
your views.
--- On Sun, 23/1/11, Veronica Caley <molleo1@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
From: Veronica Caley <molleo1@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [lit-ideas] Re: Muslim Prejudice (Judy?)
To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Date: Sunday, 23 January, 2011, 19:44
"quite" what? Are those Muslim men throwing eggs at this person doing
what? Or why? Anti-Muslim, anti-woman, anti-conservative?
Veronica Caley
Milford, MI
----- Original Message -----
From:
Judith Evans
To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Sunday, January 23, 2011 2:33
PM
Subject: [lit-ideas] Re: Muslim Prejudice
(Judy?)
I didn't say you were prejudiced.
>And now that
I have read Baroness Warsi's own words,
quite.
--- On
Sun, 23/1/11, Veronica Caley <molleo1@xxxxxxxxxxx>
wrote:
From:
Veronica Caley <molleo1@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject:
[lit-ideas] Re: Muslim Prejudice (Judy?)
To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Date:
Sunday, 23 January, 2011, 18:40
One more time Judy, this is what I said:
Comment: My feelings toward Muslim authorities, as opposed to
Muslim people, is the same as toward any religious group. I said
this and you quoted it.
I think prejudice is not even accurate for what I said I believed
or felt. Namely, that I just don't want people to control
other people's lives that don't subscribe to their religion whatever
that might be. I am not prejudging anyone. My my judgments
are on what they do or say, especially non-members. And now that
I have read Baroness Warsi's own words, she was the one that called
Muslim men throwing eggs at her "idiots."
It's not just Muslims. Former President Jimmy Carter quit
the Southern Baptist Leadership Conference because of their stance
that wives must be submissive to their husbands. The Catholic
Bishops Conference has intruded itself into the health care bill
debate here to prevent any woman from getting an abortion, regardless
of their religion. I think this is against the US Constitution,
in as much as it's silent on the issue. But not silent on
government and religion being separate.
Veronica Caley
----- Original Message -----
From:
Judith
Evans
To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Friday, January 21, 2011
5:38 PM
Subject: [lit-ideas] Re: Muslim
Prejudice (Judy?)
>>>>>>>>>>>
This was sometime on Jan. 20th, between 9 A.M. and 10
A.M., Eastern Standard Time in US. I believe the time
difference between here and London is 6 hours.
I think they got their information about the speech from
one of the London papers. If you care enough which one,
look it up. I personally don't. Since clearly she
released it and expected it to be
covered.
<<<<<<<<<<
I
asked because the London papers I read, the ones I checked,
to
see what their extracts from the speech she was to deliver on
the evening of the 20th, said, did not print the full speech.
Don't tell me to "look it up", Veronica, I was asking about
your grounds for suggesting she should tell Muslims to shut
up
about discrimination and prejudice. And your grounds
are, what someone said on "the BBC America" (I see it does
carry BBC World News/World News America) about a forthcoming
speech you think he'd seen reported in "one of the London
papers"...
).
>>>>>>>>>>
Judy:
|s
it only OK to oppose discrimination and prejudice against
members of a group if all its members accept "Western secular
values"?
Veronica:
It is OK to do what one
can to protect oneself from those who would interfere in
one's
life for no good reason.
<<<<<<<<<<
non
sequitur. Fred Phelps would restrict the lives of many,
this country has barred him from entry. Prejudice
against Christians is not justified therefore, discrimination
against all who share his views, may not be.
>>>>>>>>>>>
Veronica:
Referring to the "Baroness" as "this lady" is perfectly
acceptable here. Probably because we don't have nobility
as such here with titles such as this. Sorry if it
offended your English sensibilities.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
ah yes wounding... *I said*,
"(Is it OK to say
"this lady" when you've been given a name?"
*I'd
previously said* -- giving you a name... -- Sayeeda
Warsi. The objection to "this lady" has nothing to do
with the fact that Sayeeda Warsi, Sayeeda Hussain Warsi, is a
life peer, is Baroness/Lady Warsi. I was wondering
whether "lady" had mixed connotations in the US, as it does
here. But clearly not.
>>>>>>>>
Veronica:
Comment:
My feelings toward Muslim authorities, as opposed to Muslim
people, is the same as toward any religious
group.
<<<<<<<<<<
comment.
Warsi is talking about prejudice and discrimination *against
Muslims*, she didn't mention the MCB (for example) in her
speech. (I assume that's what you mean by Muslim
authorities.) So, well, you know, so what?
--- On Fri,
21/1/11, Veronica Caley <molleo1@xxxxxxxxxxx>
wrote:
From:
Veronica Caley <molleo1@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject:
[lit-ideas] Re: Muslim Prejudice (Judy?)
To:
lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Date: Friday, 21 January, 2011,
21:49
This was sometime on Jan. 20th, between 9 A.M. and 10
A.M., Eastern Standard Time in US. I believe the time
difference between here and London is 6 hours.
I think they got their information about the speech
from one of the London papers. If you care enough
which one, look it up. I personally don't. Since
clearly she released it and expected it to be covered.
Judy:
|s it only OK to oppose discrimination and
prejudice against members of a group if all its members
accept "Western secular values"?
It is OK to
do what one can to protect oneself from those who would
interfere in one's life for no good reason. As in the
imam I cited who definitely is not in favor of free
speech. I also believe that when one immigrates, one
ought to do as much as possible to assimilate into the new
culture. That has not been happening here as with
previous waves of immigrants. That doesn't mean to
take it all as is, but it does mean that one ought not to
expect the new culture to adapt to them.
Referring to the "Baroness" as "this lady" is perfectly
acceptable here. Probably because we don't have
nobility as such here with titles such as this. Sorry
if it offended your English sensibilities.
Comment: My feelings toward Muslim authorities, as
opposed to Muslim people, is the same as toward any
religious group. With one or two exceptions
(Unitarians, Quakers) they tend to be authoritarian and
misogynistic.
And they don't want to control their flock only.
They want to control everyone.
Veronica
----- Original Message -----
From:
Judith
Evans
To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Friday, January
21, 2011 10:27 AM
Subject: [lit-ideas]
Re: Muslim Prejudice (Judy?)
>>>>>>>>>>>
The
BBC America had a discussion about this lady and
her
comments. The one I liked the best was the man
who said that she ought not to have spoken about
anti-Muslim prejudice. Given her position, she
ought to have spoken out about how one of the
causes
of prejudice against Muslims is their refusal to
except Western secular values.
<<<<<<<<<<<<
when
exactly was this? could it have been before
she made the speech? Was he relying on the
leaked excerpts printed in the right wing
press? Had he even read those? Have you?
(Is it OK to say
"this lady" when you've been given a name? --
I suppose where you are, "this lady" may be
complimentary.)
speech
here:
http://www.sayeedawarsi.com/2011/01/university-of-leicester-sir-sigmund-sternberg-lecture/
---
On Fri, 21/1/11, Veronica Caley
<molleo1@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
From:
Veronica Caley
<molleo1@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject:
[lit-ideas] Re: Muslim Prejudice (Judy?)
To:
lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Date: Friday, 21
January, 2011, 14:53
The BBC America had a discussion about this
lady and her comments. The one I liked the
best was the man who said that she ought not to
have spoken about anti-Muslim prejudice.
Given her position, she ought to have spoken out
about how one of the causes of prejudice against
Muslims is their refusal to except Western
secular
values. His contention, familiar to us all,
that we all accept people making fun of, and
disrespecting the religion of, anyone and
everyone. Muslims generally won't accept
this.
The performer M&M was to perform in
Detroit a few years ago. Because of the
vulgarity, the city forbid it. He sued, won
and the city had to pay $300,000
restitution. The reaction of a very moderate
imam of a mosque near Detroit was: the show
is shameful, the city out to have prohibited it
and no fine ought to have been levied.
I recently finished a book called, "Why I Am
Not A Muslim." Among the things I learned:
that people who call the prophet a pedophile do
so
because he married a nine year old girl, that he
evidently was a bandit who shared the spoils, and
that he was killing Jews or driving them off the
land as early as the seventh century.
Re Eric's comment on stoning, if you haven't
seen it, two recommendations: the Christian
method
is in a film called "Zorba the Greek."
The Muslim version, in a film made by an Iranian,
is called, "The Story of Soraya M"
Zorba is also a book. I recommend you
see the film. Also that you don't eat before
doing so.
Currently, there is a concern in Western
countries that some Muslims are taking daughters
to the home country for circumcision and early
marriage. I have read about this issue being
of concern in the U.S. and Canada
Veronica
----- Original
Message -----
From:
Judith Evans
To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent:
Thursday, January 20, 2011 12:42 PM
Subject:
[lit-ideas] Re: Muslim Prejudice (Judy?)
I haven't read the speech, I did
know about it.
"Baroness Warsi will say
anti-Muslim prejudice is now seen by many
Britons as normal and
uncontroversial"
I'd say there's a
lot of truth in this, I'd also say Sayeeda
Warsi
is not likely to exaggerate the extent and
degree of prejudice. Just one thing
"She
told the 2009 Conservative Party conference
that
anti-Muslim hatred had become Britain's last
socially acceptable form of
bigotry"
There's another one, anti-gypsy
prejudice.
I have no idea how all this
compares with the US
btw sorry distracted
by some terrific breaking news, the Labour
Shadow Chancellor's resigned and Ed Balls, who
should have got the job in the first place, is
taking over. Prepare to see Tory ministers
dismembered!!!!
Judy Evans,
Cardiff
--- On Thu, 20/1/11, Julie C
<juliereneb@xxxxxxxxx>
wrote:
From:
Julie C <juliereneb@xxxxxxxxx>
Subject:
[lit-ideas] Muslim Prejudice (Judy?)
To:
lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Date: Thursday, 20
January, 2011, 17:09
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-12235237 Reactions
anyone? Judy?
Julie
Krueger
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