[lit-ideas] Re: Muslim Prejudice (Judy?)

  • From: Judith Evans <judithevans001@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
  • Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2011 22:38:22 +0000 (GMT)

>>>>>>>>>>>
This was sometime on Jan. 20th, between 9 A.M. and 10 A.M., Eastern 
Standard Time in US.  I believe the time difference between here and London 
is 6 hours.
 
I think they got their information about the speech from one of the London 
papers.  If you care enough which one, look it up.  I personally 
don't.  Since clearly she released it and expected it to be covered.
<<<<<<<<<<

I asked because the London papers I read, the ones I checked, to see what their 
extracts from the speech she was to deliver on the evening of the 20th, said, 
did not print the full speech. Don't tell me to "look it up", Veronica, I was 
asking about your grounds for suggesting she should tell Muslims to shut up 
about discrimination and prejudice.  And your grounds are, what someone said on 
"the BBC America" (I see it does carry BBC World News/World News America) about 
a forthcoming speech you think he'd seen reported in "one of the London 
papers"... ).

>>>>>>>>>>
Judy:
|s it only OK to oppose discrimination and prejudice against 
members of a group if all its members accept "Western secular values"?  


Veronica:
It is OK to do what one can to protect oneself from those who would 
interfere in one's life for no good reason.  
<<<<<<<<<<

non sequitur.  Fred Phelps would restrict the lives of many, this country has 
barred him from entry.  Prejudice against Christians is not justified 
therefore, discrimination against all who share his views, may not be.  

>>>>>>>>>>>
Veronica:

Referring to the "Baroness" as "this lady" is perfectly acceptable 
here.  Probably because we don't have nobility as such here with titles 
such as this.  Sorry if it offended your English sensibilities.
>>>>>>>>>>>> 

ah yes wounding... *I said*, 

"(Is it OK to say "this lady" when you've been given a name?"

*I'd previously said* -- giving you a name... -- Sayeeda Warsi.  The objection 
to "this lady" has nothing to do with the fact that Sayeeda Warsi, Sayeeda 
Hussain Warsi, is a life peer, is Baroness/Lady Warsi.   I was wondering 
whether "lady" had mixed connotations in the US, as it does here. But clearly 
not.  

>>>>>>>>
Veronica:
Comment: My feelings toward Muslim authorities, as opposed to Muslim 
people, is the same as toward any religious group.
<<<<<<<<<<

comment. Warsi is talking about prejudice and discrimination *against Muslims*, 
she didn't mention the MCB (for example) in her speech. (I assume that's what 
you mean by Muslim authorities.)  So, well, you know, so what?  







--- On Fri, 21/1/11, Veronica Caley <molleo1@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

From: Veronica Caley <molleo1@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [lit-ideas] Re: Muslim Prejudice (Judy?)
To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Date: Friday, 21 January, 2011, 21:49



 
This was sometime on Jan. 20th, between 9 A.M. and 10 A.M., Eastern 
Standard Time in US.  I believe the time difference between here and London 
is 6 hours.
 
I think they got their information about the speech from one of the London 
papers.  If you care enough which one, look it up.  I personally 
don't.  Since clearly she released it and expected it to be covered.

Judy:
|s it only OK to oppose discrimination and prejudice against 
members of a group if all its members accept "Western secular values"?  


It is OK to do what one can to protect oneself from those who would 
interfere in one's life for no good reason.  As in the imam I cited who 
definitely is not in favor of free speech.  I also believe that when one 
immigrates, one ought to do as much as possible to assimilate into the new 
culture.  That has not been happening here as with previous waves of 
immigrants.  That doesn't mean to take it all as is, but it does mean that 
one ought not to expect the new culture to adapt to them.  
 
Referring to the "Baroness" as "this lady" is perfectly acceptable 
here.  Probably because we don't have nobility as such here with titles 
such as this.  Sorry if it offended your English sensibilities.
 
Comment: My feelings toward Muslim authorities, as opposed to Muslim 
people, is the same as toward any religious group.  With one or two 
exceptions (Unitarians, Quakers) they tend to be authoritarian and 
misogynistic.
And they don't want to control their flock only.  They want to 
control  everyone.
 
Veronica
 
 
 
 

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: 
  Judith Evans 
  To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx 
  Sent: Friday, January 21, 2011 10:27 
  AM
  Subject: [lit-ideas] Re: Muslim Prejudice 
  (Judy?)
  

  
    
    
      >>>>>>>>>>>
The BBC 
        America had a discussion about this lady and her comments.  The one 
        I liked the best was the man who said that she ought not to have spoken 
        about anti-Muslim prejudice.  Given her position, she ought to have 
        spoken out about how one of the causes of prejudice against Muslims is 
        their refusal to except Western secular values.  
        
<<<<<<<<<<<<

when exactly 
        was this?  could it have been before she made the speech?  Was 
        he relying on the leaked excerpts printed in the right wing press?  
        Had he even read those? Have you?

     

(Is it OK to say "this 
        lady" when you've been given a name?  -- I suppose where you are, 
        "this lady" may be complimentary.)

speech 
        here:


http://www.sayeedawarsi.com/2011/01/university-of-leicester-sir-sigmund-sternberg-lecture/

--- 
        On Fri, 21/1/11, Veronica Caley 
        <molleo1@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

        
From: 
          Veronica Caley <molleo1@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [lit-ideas] Re: 
          Muslim Prejudice (Judy?)
To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Date: 
          Friday, 21 January, 2011, 14:53


          
          

          The BBC America had a discussion about this lady and her 
          comments.  The one I liked the best was the man who said that she 
          ought not to have spoken about anti-Muslim prejudice.  Given her 
          position, she ought to have spoken out about how one of the causes of 
          prejudice against Muslims is their refusal to except Western secular 
          values.  His contention, familiar to us all, that we 
          all accept people making fun of, and disrespecting the religion 
          of, anyone and everyone.  Muslims generally won't accept 
          this.
           
          The performer M&M was to perform in Detroit a few years 
          ago.  Because of the vulgarity, the city forbid it.  He 
          sued, won and the city had to pay $300,000 restitution.  The 
          reaction of a very moderate imam  of a mosque near Detroit was: 
          the show is shameful, the city out to have prohibited it and no fine 
          ought to have been levied.
           
          I recently finished a book called, "Why I Am Not A Muslim."  
          Among the things I learned: that people who call the prophet a 
          pedophile do so because he married a nine year old girl, that he 
          evidently was a bandit who shared the spoils, and that he was killing 
          Jews or driving them off the land as early as the seventh 
          century.
           
          Re Eric's comment on stoning, if you haven't seen it, two 
          recommendations: the Christian method is in a film called  "Zorba 
          the Greek."  The Muslim version, in a film made by an Iranian, is 
          called, "The Story of Soraya M"
          Zorba is also a book.  I recommend you see the film.  
          Also that you don't eat before doing so.
           
          Currently, there is a concern in Western countries that some 
          Muslims are taking daughters to the home country for circumcision and 
          early marriage.  I have read about this issue being of concern in 
          the U.S. and Canada
           
          Veronica
           
           
          
            ----- Original Message ----- 
            From: 
            Judith 
            Evans 
            To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx 
            
            Sent: Thursday, January 20, 
            2011 12:42 PM
            Subject: [lit-ideas] Re: Muslim 
            Prejudice (Judy?)
            

            
              
              
                I haven't read the speech, I did know about it. 
                  

"Baroness Warsi will say anti-Muslim prejudice is now 
                  seen by many Britons as normal and 
                  uncontroversial"


I'd say there's a lot of truth in 
                  this, I'd also say Sayeeda Warsi is not likely to exaggerate 
                  the extent and degree of prejudice. Just one thing

"She 
                  told the 2009 Conservative Party conference that anti-Muslim 
                  hatred had become Britain's last socially acceptable form of 
                  bigotry"

There's another one, anti-gypsy 
                  prejudice.

I have no idea how all this compares with 
                  the US

btw sorry distracted by some terrific breaking 
                  news, the Labour Shadow Chancellor's resigned and Ed Balls, 
                  who should have got the job in the first place, is taking 
                  over.  Prepare to see Tory ministers 
                  dismembered!!!!

Judy Evans, Cardiff

--- On 
                  Thu, 20/1/11, Julie C 
                  <juliereneb@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

                  
From: 
                    Julie C <juliereneb@xxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [lit-ideas] 
                    Muslim Prejudice (Judy?)
To: 
                    lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Date: Thursday, 20 January, 2011, 
                    17:09


                    
                    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-12235237  Reactions 
                    anyone?  Judy?
                    

Julie 
                  Krueger







      

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