Julie, I'm looking for literary studies only and I'm interested in your b) not a), which I introduced only by way of a shoehorn. I offered two dichotomized variables: cultural (though not legal) endorsement of revenge killings and the cultural expectation that such acts be acknowledged by the actor. France is high on both, Italy high on the first and low on the second, the US low on both. There's an empty cell (which I abhor) a culture low on the first but high on the second. I wonder if some Scandinavian country might fit. Does this help?
NM JimKandJulieB@xxxxxxx Krueger wrote:
I think I'm confused by your original post, Norm -- "Here's a problem I've been working on. US newspapers frequently report cases of men killing their wives, then turning themselves in. Presumably it happens in France, though I don't know. What I do know is that where murder followed by surrender shows up not infrequently in French literature and film (Julien Sorel, Lacenaire, etc.) I have not been able to find a single example in American fiction or films. If this is so there's room for some interesting speculation, but before wasting time on the latter it would be prudent to make sure that my survey of the American scene is accurate."I guess I'm wondering if you are looking for real case studies, or literary allusions. The theme of guilt/remorse/martyrdom/ etc. is fairly romanticized in fiction. If turning one's self in after murder were very rare in factual life, one could not expect it to be hugely touted in fictional work, unless as fantasy, sci-fi, or Harlequins.I think what I'm getting at is that your query conflates two different juxtapositions -- a) comparison/contrast between facts and literature (fiction), and b) comparison/contrast among cultures/countries. I think one would have to settle on one of the above and make the other subordinant.Julie Krueger In what countriesOn 4/13/07, *N Miller* <nm1921@xxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:nm1921@xxxxxxxxxxx>> wrote:Julie is quite right. I'm looking for _fictional_ characters who do what Don José does when he kills Carmen: "c'est moi qui l'a tué", followed by the heavy chords that tell us where he's headed. It interests me that the US, which nurtures so many divergent sub-cultures, is a place where beating the rap seems to be normative throughout. nm JimKandJulieB@xxxxxxx <mailto:JimKandJulieB@xxxxxxx> Krueger wrote:I keep wanting to suggest a difference between turning one's self in and admitting to the crime (particularly as, if I understand correctly, people are with some frequency encouraged to plead guilty in court to whatever, to reduce the sentence and/or avoid jury trial). But perhaps that's all splitting hairs and does not go to what Norman is getting at. Julie Krueger On 4/12/07, *Andy Amago* <aamago@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:aamago@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>> wrote: -----Original Message----- >From: Carol Kirschenbaum <carolkir@xxxxxxxxx <mailto:carolkir@xxxxxxxxx>> >Sent: Apr 12, 2007 5:53 PM >To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> >Subject: [lit-ideas] Re: Murder in two cultures > Harris's style >wasn't frenzied. She felt that her life was over when she realized her >lover, her life, was dead. Herein lies the pathos. > >Perhaps it's less likely that American men in love would feel like this. I once heard a feminist describe acts of passion as acts of possession. That was in the context of the O.J. Simpson murder. You hit it on the head when you say that her lover is synonymous with her life. To lose him was to lose her Self. That's what O.J. was going through, coupled I imagine with some fantasied revenge, probably of mother going way back into early childhood. There was way too much energy for anything else. People who commit acts of passion (possession) are really functioning out of a place of extreme immaturity. Likewise machismo. There is just no need to settle disputes violently. Adults just don't do that. ------------------------------------------------------------------ To change your Lit-Ideas settings (subscribe/unsub, vacation on/off, digest on/off), visit www.andreas.com/faq-lit-ideas.html <http://www.andreas.com/faq-lit-ideas.html>
