tried to unsubscribe, but Freelists wasn't having > any, so what was I to do? You could have emailed Andreas and Teemu asking them to unsub you. I had to come back here and confront Judy's > one-liners, Irene's irrationalities, Simon's illogicalities, and John > McCreery's innuendo. a "one-liner" like "your Condemn > terrorists and someone is going to condemn you in short order. is a lie" is easy to confront. Produce evidence that when a list member condemns terrorism, they will be condemned, or admit you're wrong. But I see you think you did just that. I quote >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I am expressing and have frequently noted and expressed irritation that Leftists so swiftly jump to the defense of our enemies, or immediately claim we are just as bad if not worse than they are, or counter our unhappiness with our enemies with a rousing attack against America, its leadership, people who want to defend America, etc. If the stakes were high enough I could easily go back through the records and produce scores if not hundreds of such examples. <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< this is not evidence, Lawrence, moreover, you would have to produce evidence that **when(ever) a list member condemns terrorism, they will be condemned**. Are the stakes high enough for you to do that? Well. I wouldn't like to be called a liar. It seems you don't mind. >>>>>>>>>>>> Is Judy lying? In keeping with what just wrote John, I don't know enough to know whether she is lying. She may not have read all the notes. She may not have read them with sufficient attention. Her eyes may be weakening. Her attention may be weakening. I can think of a number of other possibilities. <<<<<<<<<< I thought of the possibility that you were not lying, Lawrence, that you had so badly misread the posts that you believed what you said. I decided you were lying. >I suppose it is impossible to get any of you to > present logical arguments. I think we can all agree it's impossible for any "of us" to produce an argument you'll regard as logical. But that is not quite the same thing. Judy Evans, Cardiff, UK ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lawrence Helm" <lawrencehelm@xxxxxxxxxxxx> To: <lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> Sent: Sunday, January 07, 2007 8:06 PM Subject: [lit-ideas] Re: Max Boot > Now, now, Simon. I don't call you Leftists "insane," I call you illogical. > And if you consider my saying so an insult, think about what it would mean > if I didn't say so. I would be condoning your illogicality with my silence. > I would be refraining from doing my duty which in this case involves > describing to you what a logical argument consists of, and urge you to > beginning a dialogue worthy of an educated European. Actually I did recently > consider giving up on you Leftists and unsubscribing, but the Andreas > freelists device for doing that doesn't work. I tried to go on vacation and > when that didn't work I tried to unsubscribe, but Freelists wasn't having > any, so what was I to do? I had to come back here and confront Judy's > one-liners, Irene's irrationalities, Simon's illogicalities, and John > McCreery's innuendo. I suppose it is impossible to get any of you to > present logical arguments. It is probably just as impossible to prevent me > from being irritated by that fact when I am confronted with it. > > > > I won't discuss your note below in detail. It is very much in character - > big on emotional rant, lacking in anything approaching evidence and utterly > unrelated to anything remotely smacking of a logical argument. > > > > Lawrence > > > > _____ > > From: lit-ideas-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:lit-ideas-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] > On Behalf Of Simon Ward > Sent: Sunday, January 07, 2007 9:16 AM > To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx > Subject: [lit-ideas] Re: Max Boot > > > > You posted it pubicly? > > > > Hey Lawrence, you know I just didn't realise that given the indirect > references to us 'dumb' leftists. And your right, insults were chucked at > you that you just didn't deserve given the fact that you never even approach > the insult stage when dealing with us 'insane' leftists. And I'm sure your > correct and that all these deaths, all these bereaved families across the > world, all the hundreds of thousands of lives that have been ended in the > last few years, all the vaporisation that has gone on is a just response to > the three thousand that died in New York. > > > > How dare these inferior types challenge the might of the West and if they > do, what else can they expect than wholesale vaporisation; a hundred to one, > a thousand to one, what is the appropriate ratio we wonder. And if for every > dead terrorist another five rise in their place because of all this > vaporisation, well so what; if they dare to stand, we'll just knock them > down in even greater numbers. > > > > Death! Death! Death! > > > > Bring it on eh Lawrence, line them up and well shoot them down. Heck it's > just a turkey shoot. The US have lost another three thousand while the > Terrorists (notice the capitalisation) have lost maybe two hundred thousand, > maybe three hundred thousand. Those are the kind of odds we like. (How did > they ever fit so many in those caves). > > > > That's just about approaching the worth of one American life. A life of > freedom, a life without tyranny, without threat of violent crime, without > persecution, without drugs, without guns, without prisons, a life of plenty, > of fairness and equality. In fact a life so worthwhile that it should be > exported. What an idea, why don't we just go out and remove all those > inferior types and put in their place something more respectable, something > with a degree of freedom; why don't we just go out and create some room... > > > > Bet nobody's thought of that before. > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Lawrence <mailto:lawrencehelm@xxxxxxxxxxxx> Helm > > To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx > > Sent: Sunday, January 07, 2007 3:35 PM > > Subject: [lit-ideas] Re: Max Boot > > > > Simon, > > > > I posted that publicly. What difference did it make to me since I've not > gotten an intelligent response from a Leftist in eons - if ever. Note how > silly you are. Note that I observed that Leftists quickly attack us for > wanting to defend our country. They attack us if we want to defeat our > enemies. Notice that I said they never enter into a serious logical > discussion and when one of us proposes a serious discussion or advances a > serious argument all the Leftists can manage in response is a series of > insults. I said you didn't seem to have the ability to reason or debate > logically. So what do you do to refute that? You insult me -- once again > proving my point - if it needed any more proving which it doesn't. > > > > Lawrence > > > > > _____ > > > From: lit-ideas-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:lit-ideas-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] > On Behalf Of Simon Ward > Sent: Sunday, January 07, 2007 2:01 AM > To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx > Subject: [lit-ideas] Re: Max Boot > > > > No doubt Lawrence's private message to Eric was sent to the list by mistake. > > > > > We weren't supposed to see the deliberate misapplication of logic and the > deliberate maligning of those on the list who criticised Eric's approach to > fighting terrorism or likened Eric's language to that used by Neo Nazis. > Somehow, though clearly we weren't meant to see it, we have all become 'the > enemy' through a literary manouvre that is no doubt taught in the 'Schools > of the Right' (disguised as regular viewing on FOX News) in which it is > thought wise to try and ferment a civil war in addition to the many wars > being fought on foreign soil. > > > > I can almost smell the friction burns as Lawrence rubs his hands together. > > > > Simon > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Lawrence <mailto:lawrencehelm@xxxxxxxxxxxx> Helm > > To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx > > Sent: Sunday, January 07, 2007 7:01 AM > > Subject: [lit-ideas] Re: Max Boot > > > > Eric: > > > > Notice how quickly any expressions hostile to Militant Islam, Terrorism or > any variation thereof are quickly turned back on the writer. Condemn > terrorists and someone is going to condemn you in short order. You'll be a > wild man, a fascist, just as bad as the terrorist or some combination > thereof. The fact that Leftists can't resist doing that, can't resist > attacking those interested in defending this country, is far more > interesting (and potentially alarming - until we realize they are but a > minority in the US - if not in Europe) than anything pertaining to the > actual defense. A majority in this nation will insist that this country be > defended, but we here on Lit-Ideas are a backwater in which hostile > intelligences snap and bite at those who believe in fighting against our > enemies. How do you account for that? I for one never get used to it. > What they say strikes me as being similar to someone who does something > really dumb and then does it again and then again. They draw attention to > themselves. You are shocked and then amazed. You try to help them, but > they don't want any help and they go off and do it again, and again, and > again. It is like a blind spot or insanity. One of them wants to turn our > founding fathers into a group of terrorists -- I suppose such a > transformation is intended to make the present terrorists more palatable to > those of us who oppose them. What sort of intelligence would assert > something so loony? It is amazing. She wasn't affected by the fact that > the concept didn't exist until it was applied to the French during their > revolution which occurred after ours. Her head was up and locked and the > throttles were fully forward. I don't think she even noticed what I said. > > > > Now you have been called a Nazi, you who live near the World Trade Center > and witnessed the work of the Terrorists are now considered a Nazi for > wishing them ill. Why do these Leftists so quickly attack those who oppose > our enemies? Why do they in effect come to the defense of our enemies? Are > we experiencing a pandemic of self-destructive behavior? Might we become > infected as well? Might we one day wake up and hate America and wish to > become a Terrorist's toady? And what is most alarming, we have ample > evidence that the disease is incurable. > > > > But then the next question to ask is why we, who have yet to be infected, > spend so much time inviting their dumb comments again, and again, and still > again. Perhaps this is a form of symbiosis. If we could get them to go to > an Alcoholics Anonymous for Leftists, perhaps we should seek out an Allanon. > > > > > Lawrence > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: lit-ideas-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:lit-ideas-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] > On Behalf Of Eric Yost > Sent: Saturday, January 06, 2007 6:22 PM > To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx > Subject: [lit-ideas] Re: Max Boot > > > > Joerg: ... over here, someone with your "world-view" would > > easily qualify as a neo-Nazi, and be banned from public > > life: that's not a "clash of cultures", it's just drawing > > the line between civilisation and barbarianism. > > > > > > Eric: I let this pass too easily, so redux. > > > > Let me get this straight: in modern Germany, if someone > > advocated killing active terrorists, they would qualify as > > neo-Nazis and be banned from public life? That can't be > > right, can it? If that's what you really meant, it's almost > > too weird and fascist for a reply ... almost. > > > > If that's the case, you Germans are totally [insert > > Anglicism for traditional expletive] bonked. Might as well > > just lubricate yourself and bend over for any and all > > militant killer scum who threaten you. That's so sad. A > > whimpering end. Being someone's jailhouse punk in the name > > of civilization. Es ist wirklich traurig. > > > > If I misconstrued what you wrote, and it seems certain I > > misconstrued, you should correct me. What, exactly, in your > > opinion, qualifies as neo-Nazi about my world view? Or are > > you the Hammer seeing me as a Nagel? > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------ To change your Lit-Ideas settings (subscribe/unsub, vacation on/off, digest on/off), visit www.andreas.com/faq-lit-ideas.html