Paul Stone wrote: "It's funny how "parents" of all walks like to tell us stuff with the "oh, you'll see" warning... but so far, I haven't "seen". I'm sure his mother will do (and has done) enough worrying for two people." ---- Exactly. There's this quote in the Oxford Dict. of Humorous Quotations -- ed. by N. Sherrin, but not to hand at the moment, that goes: "Parents are the last persons who should be allowed to have children". -- The quotation is actually better. Note that 'paedia' means education, as when Geary speaks of 'child-rearing' ("I love you regardless" his mom would say). So, if you think of it, Ciropaedia, becomes a redundancy: as "paidopaedia", for who can be educated but the "pais"? The Greeks thought that they had to extend the stage of 'pais' to early adolescent. So we see 'paidika', etc. referring not to a 'child' really, but more like, even, a young man. The Grecian distinctions are very subtle: 'pais', 'kuros', 'ephebe', and 'aner' (for males). For females is slightly different. One rite-of-initiation was the natural growing of a beard, but then we have Martial (can't find the epigram) to the effect: "That boy -- his beard is already growing on the left side while the barber is shaving the right side." Cheers, JL ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com