[lit-ideas] Re: Link to "Mohammed" cartoons
- From: "Andreas Ramos" <andreas@xxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: <lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Sat, 11 Feb 2006 15:10:01 -0800
From: "Lawrence Helm" <lawrencehelm@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
I should have said the Jews have lived in Palestine
since the Exodus. The Muslims if you are interested didn't get there until
around the 7th century A.D., I've got the date somewhere if anyone is
interesting.
The Muslims didn't "arrive" because Islam is a religion, not a race. The Arabs converted to
Islam.
Lawrence, you have a remarkable ability to see only what you want to see. You read history
books, but only those that support your preconceptions. You don't question the author's
intentions. If an author ignores something, you ignore it as well. You won't read other
books on the issue.
Look up Exodus 23:22-33. It's in Torah and the Bible. It states that there were many tribes
in the area; the invaders slaughtered them. Israel has a right to the land? Yes, but only
right by conquest. It wasn't their land orginally. Torah clearly states that.
As for modern Israel, that's a very complex story. It's complex because the political
intentions have changed repeatedly in the last 150 years or so, and some of these ideas are
out of fashion now. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Israel
The Holocaust complexifies the issues almost infinitely. Although ignored at first, Israel
later in the 50s realized the Holocaust could be used for political reasons. By aligning
Israel with the Holocaust, Israel became the victim. Thus anything is justified, because
Israel can not be criticized.
I admire the Jews because they are willing to fight for their land. They don't whimper,
they don't whine and they are damned fine warriors.
Benny Morris, an Israeli professor of history, has been looking at how the modern state of
Israel was founded. He isn't a critic by any means; he is a strong supportive of the state.
He has written about the systematic use of atrocities, the terrorism, rape, the slaughter of
entire villages, and so on by Israeli army to drive out Arabs. "Damned fine warriors"
indeed. This is called "Transferism" (transfer the Arabs out of Israel, or drive them out).
This strategy was not a "few bad apples"; it came from Ben-Gurion himself and was policy.
Seize the land, drive out the inhabitants, take it over.
Morris, and other hardline Israeli, defend Transferism: as he says, without it, there would
be no Israel. Lawrence: get this clearly: they weren't fighting to defend their land. They
massacred, terrorized, and raped to get land.
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/pages/ShArt.jhtml?itemNo=380986&contrassID=2&subContrassID=1&sbSubContrassID=0&listSrc=Y
yrs,
andreas
www.andreas.com
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