I doubt it and I think there would be quite the uproar as well. I'm not suggesting that the behavior was acceptable. It was a gross overreaction. But it sounds like the other side was sporting for a fight too in the guise of free speech. Nobody was acting civilized. When someone overreacts, it's guaranteed that there are deep issues going on. Shame and hostility are not the way to deal with deep issues. Wouldn't it have been better, even far better, if the Muslims were treated with respect, their religion treated with respect? Then they would learn what respect is by receiving it and experiencing it, and over time they would see first hand how deficient their own intolerance is. We give what we have. If they get respect and tolerance, they can give respect and tolerance. Instead, they learned that Denmark is filled with hostile people. What do you do when you experience hostility? You hunker down and get hostile. Denmark flew its colors as no better than anybody else, including the Muslims. ----- Original Message ----- From: To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Sent: 2/8/2006 10:12:56 PM Subject: [lit-ideas] Re: Link to "Mohammed" cartoons <<That the uproar muslims created intimidated American newspapers into silence (not showing the cartoons is silence) is troubling.>> I'm wondering .... if there were an incredibly offensive cartoon satirizing Jews that was printed in a foreign newspaper (well, there are, constantly -- see Al Jazeera etc.) and it made the news in America, would American newspapers reprint the cartoons as part of their coverage of the story? Julie Krueger ========Original Message======== Subj:[lit-ideas] Re: Link to "Mohammed" cartoons Date:2/8/06 8:58:06 P.M. Central Standard Time From:writeforu2@xxxxxxxxxxx To:lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Sent on: J.E. Who, here, has sought to suggest there are no anti-Jewish cartoons in the Muslim world? Who, here, is unaware of the hate literature there? Why should you imagine for one moment even that we (who regard the cartoons as offensive) think part of the Muslim response (the response of part of the Muslim world) should not be criticised? To think we say or believe that they are both exempt from criticism and are the only ones exempt from criticism is, well, strange. S.S. When David Savory tells us: If you knew anything about Islam you'd know you don't draw pictures of Muhammad. Period.-- then I guess I'm strange to take offense. I'm strange when I'm asked to be sensitive to muslim feelings when they're free to draw disgusting pictures of Jews. David's self-righteousness about muslim sensitivities leaves me pretty disgusted. This whole discussion shows too much sensitivity to Muslims (and insensitivity to Jews.) That you have some hidden awareness of the hatred they show -- and feel justified in showing again and again -- is irrelevant. We're not talking about "hate literature." We're talking about education. The systematic education of muslim children. That's different from hate literature, Judy. The muslim point of view is so toxic (and uncompromisingly dangerous) there are virtually no Jews that live in the 22 Arab nations that surround and hope to annihilate Israel. And we should be sensitive to Muslims who move to Denmark and other Western societies? Why are they living there instead of in Syria and Saudi Arabia, in Lebanon and Kuwait? They moved there predictably because there's more hope and promise of a better life. In exchange for that better life, they needed to learn the values of an open society. That included freedom of speech. If you read the interconnected articles attached to those cartoons, you'd know that muslims in Denmark expected the govt to apologize to them. Denmark refused! That wouldn't have happened in England or America, I think. Their refusal to apologize underlined the value of freedom of speech. That newspaper had the right to criticize muslims (which the cartoons of Muhammed reflected.) It needed to be said out loud. Have you noticed how many newspapers in America have shown those cartoons? (None) Until I showed them, how many of you even knew what they looked like? That the uproar muslims created intimidated American newspapers into silence (not showing the cartoons is silence) is troubling. Are we to treat Muslims in Western societies different from any other ethnic (not religious) group in order to avoid bloodshed? Stan Spiegel Portland, ME ----- Original Message ----- From: "JUDITH EVANS" <judithevans1@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> To: <lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> Sent: Wednesday, February 08, 2006 3:05 PM Subject: [lit-ideas] Re: Link to "Mohammed" cartoons > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Stan Spiegel" <writeforu2@xxxxxxxxxxx> > >> If you knew anything about Islam, David, you'd know how methodically they >> educate their children to hate Jews. Carefully, systematically, >> unrelentingly. Interesting to see how sensitive you are to those poor >> thin-skinned Muslims. I'm not! Especially those who've been welcomed into >> Western countries like Denmark. They've seen political cartoons before. > Are >> they the only ones who are to be exempt from criticism? > > Stan, when I first posted -- here and on another list -- to the effect > that > I thought a couple of these cartoons were offensive, a major response was > that I believed in threatening to kill (pr even in killing) the > cartoonists > or the publisher. I don't think anyone who said that really believed it, > still, they did believe I hadn't defended free speech adequately. > > Your response seems to me to be a variant of this tic. Who, here, has > sought to suggest there are no anti-Jewish cartoons in the Muslim world? > Who, here, is unaware of the hate literature there? Why should you > imagine > for one moment even that we (who regard the cartoons as offensive) think > part of the Muslim response (the response of part of the Muslim world) > should not be criticised? To think we say or believe that they are both > exempt from criticism and are the only ones exempt from criticism is, > well, > strange. > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------ > To change your Lit-Ideas settings (subscribe/unsub, vacation on/off, > digest on/off), visit www.andreas.com/faq-lit-ideas.html ------------------------------------------------------------------ To change your Lit-Ideas settings (subscribe/unsub, vacation on/off, digest on/off), visit www.andreas.com/faq-lit-ideas.html