[lit-ideas] Re: LUMBERJACKS and Arabs IN BLACK DRESSES
- From: JimKandJulieB@xxxxxxx
- To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2005 14:16:48 EST
Forgive me if I'm overlooking the obvious, or stating that which is assumed
here. The thing which troubles me the most about this document is not the
Catholic stance on homo-sexuality. It is that it seems that barring those who
have not "'clearly overcome' homosexual tendencies" is perceived as a step
toward preventing the kinds of sex-abuse that has been on the front page of
the
media for a few years, sex-abuse of minors by Priests. I'm disturbed that
no distinction is being made (seemingly) between homosexuality and pedophilia
-- surely the Catholic Church does not understand it to be de rigeur for
homosexual men to prey on minors. The statement re. those already in the
Priesthood is equally discomforting. And....praytell....even were this
approach to
eliminate potential sex abuse, how in the world would it be determined
whether someone had "clearly overcome" "tendencies"??? Nothing about this
makes
any rational sense to me. It is, rather, as though the Cath Church is
placating the world by seeming to do something when, in fact, it is only
playing
silly games. Someone (Catholic?) please correct my above twisted thinking.
Below are statements which I found most troublesome from this morning's news
report, and a bit on homosexuality in the UAE. I do need to google about and
find an English translation of the document somewhere -- I can muddle through
some Italian, but not well enough to be sure of careful wording as this must
be.
<<(CNN) -- The Vatican has published a controversial document on gays and
the Catholic priesthood, affirming its policy against gay priests but saying
anyone who has "clearly overcome" homosexual tendencies can start the process
of becoming a priest.
<snip>The short document has already prompted debate both in and out of the
church. Conservatives see it as a key step in reforming the priesthood, while
liberals fear it could drive gay priests underground or create a greater
shortage of priests in the United States.>>
<<Meanwhile, gay groups have said the church is using homosexuals as
scapegoats for its sexual abuse scandals, Reuters reported.>>
Well, it wasn't heterosexuals who were abusing same-sex kids; on the other
hand, perhaps gay groups are also thinking it is not merely homosexuality which
was at play in those cases.
<<In spelling out its position, the Vatican office that deals with education
within the Catholic Church made a distinction between deep-seated homosexual
tendencies and what it called "the expression of a transitory problem.">>
'Scuse me? This reminds me too much of a piece on homosexuals in Dubai
(what exactly is the "transitory problem"?:
_http://edition.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/meast/11/29/uae.gay.reut/index.html_
(http://edition.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/meast/11/29/uae.gay.reut/index.html)
<<DUBAI, United Arab Emirates (Reuters) -- Men arrested at what a United
Arab Emirates official said appeared to be a gay wedding are to be given
hormone
therapy, officials said on Tuesday.
The U.S. State Department condemned the forced medical treatment of gay
couples in the Muslim Gulf Arab state and called on the UAE to comply with
international legal standards.
Police raided a hotel earlier this month where 26 homosexuals of Asian, Arab
and UAE origin were at a party. At least 12 were dressed in women's clothes
and wearing makeup at what an official said appeared to be a wedding
celebration.
Colonel Najm al-Sayar told Reuters the foreigners were likely to be deported
while the locals, who are being held in the capital Abu Dhabi, would undergo
hormonal therapy -- most likely induced testosterone.
"They will be given psychological, medical and sociological treatment. Some
of them will be given male hormones because some actually took female
hormones," Sayar said.
"This kind of behavior is immoral in our society and so we must address the
issue."
Homosexuality is forbidden by law in most Arab states.
In Washington, State Department spokesman Sean McCormack said: "The United
States condemns the arrest of a dozen same-sex couples in the United Arab
Emirates and a statement by the Interior Ministry spokesman that they will be
subjected to government-ordered hormone and psychological treatment.
"The arrest of these individuals is part of a string of recent group arrests
of homosexuals in the UAE. We call on the government of the United Arab
Emirates to immediately stop any ordered hormone and psychological treatment
and
to comply with the standards of international law.">>
Back to the piece on the Cath. document --
"The church, while profoundly respecting the persons in question, cannot
admit to the seminary and to holy orders those who practice homosexuality,
present deeply rooted homosexual tendencies or support the so-called gay
culture,"
the document said, according to Adista.
But the document said when "homosexual tendencies are only the expression of
a transitory problem ... these must be clearly overcome at least three years
prior to deaconate ordination."
That position is just one step short of the priesthood.
The 21-paragraph document -- which advises bishops and seminary rectors on
how to deal with potential gay priests entering the church -- did not spell out
how the "transitory problem" could be overcome, or how a potential priest
could offer proof that he no longer had such tendencies.
The Catholic Church has had a long-standing policy against homosexual
priests, with a 1961 document saying homosexuals should be barred from
priesthood.
But in recent years the Vatican has seen a need to issue updated guidelines,
partially as a result of the sex abuse scandal that rocked the church in the
United States.
That scandal, which broke out in 2002, involved abuse of teenage boys by
priests.
In covering one of the most sensitive issues in the Roman Catholic Church,
the document did not cover men who are already priests but only those entering
seminaries to prepare for the priesthood."
I see ....
Obviously I haven't had enough coffee. Again.
Julie Krueger
========Original Message========
Subj: [lit-ideas] Re: LUMBERJACKS IN BLACK DRESSES Date: 11/29/05 12:50:28
PM Central Standard Time From: _judithevans1@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
(mailto:judithevans1@xxxxxxxxxxxxx) To: _lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
(mailto:lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx) Sent on:
Tuesday, November 29, 2005, 4:51:18 PM, Mike Geary wrote:
MG> I'm pleased to see that Pope Benedict has finally outlawed
MG> gays from the priesthood.
I imagine he had to after what he said about gays.
On a brighter note: Liberal Jewish Synagogues here will perform gay
marriage ceremonies, presumably as of December 21 (December 20 in
Scotland) when civil partnerships will begin to be celebrated. The
Methodists are going to perform blessings of civil partnerships; the
Anglicans are of course scared of schism but Anglican priests will
enter into civil partnerships. (Bishops are supposed to ask them if
they're celibate. Yeah right... .)
Guess what. Presumably in the "no sex we're British" tradition, civil
partnership law doesn't admit the dissolving of a partnership for
non-consummation. So heterosexual same-sex couples who want the tax
advantages of a cp can enter into one. Otoh there's no cp "divorce".
--
Judy Evans, Cardiff, UK
mailto:judithevans1@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
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