[lit-ideas] Re: Islam, Israel and the Code of the West

  • From: "Simon Ward" <sedward@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • To: <lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2006 23:59:22 +0100

I've looked at the Irgun site, but I didn't expect to find any mention of its 
terrorist status there. Did you?

And for me, this isn't about supporting Islamic militants/terrorists, it's 
about making distinctions between cause and means. 

Irgun blew up a hotel killing 92 people. Yes they gave a warning which wasn't 
heeded, and yes the targets were predominantly military, but if that wasn't 
terrorism I don't know what is. It also exploded bombs in Arab marketplaces 
killings civilians.

Now you said in an early post that: "Terrorist organizations should be 
exterminated, not dealt with diplomatically."

But now you're argiung that an organisation that blew up a hotel not to mention 
exploding bombs in Arab markets and killing civilians was actually a guerilla 
organisation. Oh and that times have changed. 

For you it seems some causes justify terrorist methodologies. For me that 
doesn't work.

Simon

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Lawrence Helm 
  To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx 
  Sent: Tuesday, July 18, 2006 11:43 PM
  Subject: [lit-ideas] Re: Islam, Israel and the Code of the West


  Well, maybe Ben Gurion had something different in mind back then.  Here's the 
"Irgun Site."  I've started reading it and haven't run across the term 
"terrorist yet."



  What I'm mainly hearing in these discussions is a lot of pro-Militant 
Islamic, anti-Semitic stuff: moral equivalence, i.e., Hezbollah and Israel are 
morally equivalent.



  Hezbollah is a militant arm of Iran, an arm intended to advance the Iranian 
Revolution as conceived by Khomeini.  He sent it to Lebanon as it seemed, 
because of its large Shiite population, to have the second most fertile ground 
for his revolution.  The tactics were typical Islamist tactics.  Khomeini 
messed up because his first choice was Iraq but when he tried to subvert the 
Shi'is in the South of Iraq, Saddam declared war on him.  After 8 years of war, 
Khomeini was near death and Hezbollah was still operating outside of Iran.



  Israel's aims are far more modest.  They want to be allowed to exist.  They 
want their neighbors to acknowledge their right to existence.  So far they have 
failed in their aims.  Islamic nations and Islamist organizations like 
Hezbollah continue to attempt to drive them out of existence.  Do they really 
need your support, Simon.  They seem to have large enough numbers already.  
They outnumber Israel many times over.  



  Lawrence








------------------------------------------------------------------------------

  From: lit-ideas-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:lit-ideas-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] 
On Behalf Of Simon Ward
  Sent: Tuesday, July 18, 2006 3:24 PM
  To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
  Subject: [lit-ideas] Re: Islam, Israel and the Code of the West



  Wikipedia includes a discussion page for its Irgun entry that covers the 
question of terrorist or not.



  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Irgun



  Right at the bottom, it comes down to whether such an organisation called 
itself such and since, as it says, Ben Gurion admitted Irgun was a terrorist 
outfit, then so be it.



  Simon

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